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Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Peanut Gallery for Great debate: radiocarbon dating, Mindspawn and Coyote/RAZD | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Atheos canadensis Member (Idle past 3023 days) Posts: 141 Joined: |
Gish gallop works. Unfortunately true. But only from the perspective of the uneducated or the galloper himself. Its effectiveness is more limited in the context of a debate with someone so formidably well-informed as RAZD. Not that being presented with facts will halt his gallop because, as Coyote points out:
He really is not trying to convince us as much as he is trying to convince himself I think the hurdles of empirical evidence RAZD is placing in Mindie's path will eventually slow his gallop to a zombiesque shamble, although for the reasons mentioned above will fail to halt him completely.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Jar writes: Gish gallop works. Unfortunately true. But only from the perspective of the uneducated or the galloper himself. I think RAZD is showing that Gish Gallop is not a great strategy for written debates. Gish Gallop, properly used, overwhelms your opponent with a volume of questions that cannot be effectively handled. Whether the questions are off the wall, unanticipated, just rattled of gattling gun style, or whether you just chew up the time to respond, the opponent is made to appear as if he does not know his stuff. In a written debate, patience overcomes volume. Every time. RAZD has not spared the ink in classifying the made up stuff as nonsense, refuting with evidence the stuff that is just plain wrong, and pointing out the irrelevant stuff. In fact, RAZD has returned volume for volume, and I don't see much Gallop in anything he's posted. Not much return on investment for all of mindspawn's typying I think. Okay, maybe some of RAZD's psychoanalysis is a bit over the top...Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Atheos canadensis Member (Idle past 3023 days) Posts: 141 Joined: |
In a written debate, patience overcomes volume. Every time. RAZD has not spared the ink in classifying the made up stuff as nonsense, refuting with evidence the stuff that is just plain wrong, and pointing out the irrelevant stuff. In fact, RAZD has returned volume for volume, and I don't see much Gallop in anything he's posted. Agreed. It only works when there's no opportunity for the galloper's interlocutor to respond substantively to the flurry of points. And RAZD has the patience to answer, which is impressive. He is, as you say, returning volume for volume, but his posts are very data-dense rather than conjecture-dense as Mindie's are. Hi latest post detailing the practice of dendrochronology, particularly the ability of dendrochronologists to identify false rings, really destroys Mindspawn's objections to that discipline. Now I'm hoping RAZD can exercise his considerable patience and post no more until Mindie responds to the utter demolition of his objections to dendrochronology.
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
But we have already seen that the response to that was just TLDNR as expected.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Pollux Member Posts: 303 Joined: |
I would like to add my appreciation for RAZD's expertise and efforts. I have been following the debate with interest. Well done RAZD!
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
TLDNR ?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Its supposed to be TL;DR and it means "Too Long; Didn't Read".
jar made it Too Long Did Not Read
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AZPaul3 Member Posts: 8551 From: Phoenix Joined: Member Rating: 4.9 |
TYFCTUFM.
8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 88 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 8 (thank you for clearing that up for me.)
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
What is this?
================= Conscious Life News - News and Articles About Conscious Living on Planet Earth : Conscious Life News# The Mystery of Gbekli Tepe and Its Message to Us Carbon dating in use to destroy YEC. Or pseudo-science? Let's see how this plays out....- xongsmith, 5.7d
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2132 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Nonsense.
Ignore it.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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As I was reflecting on RAZD's work in the great debate, I recalled that JonF posted this.
Your link points to a determination of the half life of Thorium 230 which is of particularly interest because it is based on a direct measurement of Th230 disintegration activity. This technique has the advantage over many of the other determinations in that it does not rely on samples reaching secular equilibrium with another isotope. A directly refuting of mindspring's claim that Th230 half life measurements use "evolutionary assumptions". I did not see a similarly suitable U234 measurement in your post, so for completeness, I located a couple of measurements of U234 half life using a similar method to the one described in your citation. See method 2 at the first link: Half-Life of Uranium (234) - NASA/ADS
quote: The Specific Alpha-Activities and Half-Lives of U<SUP>234</SUP>, U<SUP>235</SUP>, and U<SUP>236</SUP> - NASA/ADS
quote: Okay. Now I can turn in...Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Atheos canadensis Member (Idle past 3023 days) Posts: 141 Joined: |
It's been three days since Mindie posted. Busy schedule or difficulty assembling a real rejoinder to the schooling in dendrochronology he just received?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Mindspawn typically does not post on weekends. I think he last posted on the 20th which was only a couple of days prior to the weekend.
Too early to tell if he is stymied.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.Richard P. Feynman If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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Atheos canadensis Member (Idle past 3023 days) Posts: 141 Joined: |
Mindspawn typically does not post on weekends Fair enough. I guess I was somewhat suspicious as a result of reading other threads in which he's participated where he suddenly disappears when even his considerable imagination is insufficient to allow him to object to empirical facts that refute his arguments.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined:
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Regardless of whatever his strengths and weaknesses may be, it is pretty brutal to try to be the creationist side at this forum. He may be wrong, even badly wrong, but my (albeit pretty lightly informed) perception is that he's done a remarkable job at carrying on discussions. You could have far worse creationist opponents.
And the creationists do drive the discussion. Be thankful that you do have Mindspawn. OSLT. Adminnemooseus Or something like that.
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