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Author Topic:   On The Limits of Human Talent
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 126 (711398)
11-18-2013 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by marc9000
11-17-2013 4:40 PM


By "lean not on our own understanding", I don't think that means to stop short of attempts to learn all we can about the natural world. It means to stop short of using what we learn to put God (or God's word) to the test. ...
... and when it does put "God's word" to the test, then we should shut down our god-given brains and ignore god-given evidence.
Why is the earth in specific and the universe in general not the "book" of god's creation?
... To acknowledge that there are some things that humans will never be able to figure out, to the extent to be able to challenge anything the 66 book Bible says.
Certainly you will "never be able to figure out" anything you don't investigate.
This is iconic cognitive dissonance behavior -- ignore anything outside your personal bubble of belief and knowledge that challenges those beliefs. Because if you ignore them then you can pretend that they are not true.
Is your belief so weak that you fear to put it to the test?
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by marc9000, posted 11-17-2013 4:40 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by marc9000, posted 11-20-2013 7:25 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 24 of 126 (711647)
11-21-2013 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by marc9000
11-20-2013 7:25 PM


No, we should take a second look, ask ourselves who found this evidence, what their motives were, and what use the evidence actually is.
Attack the messenger rather than the message? When there are thousands of scientists coming to the same conclusions based on objective empirical evidence it must be their motives that are at fault?
Because it wasn't created in the same way it is sustained. ...
Do you have objective empirical evidence for this or is it just something you tell yourself to explain why science doesn't produce the answers you want?
... When we try to use the laws that it is sustained by to explain how it was created, we start making small errors that quickly snowball into really big errors.
Like the evidence that shows the earth is over 4.5 billion years? The evidence that the universe is over 12.5 billion years? The objective empirical evidence that is left by their creation?
A lot of things humans go to a lot of trouble to investigate are a complete waste of time. ...
Like the bible? LOL -- a lot of things humans do is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean scientific investigations necessarily are a waste of time.
... Life is short, there are a lot of important things to do that go undone because the scientific community is so busy chasing reinforcement to prop up its atheism.
There are more important things that don't get done because of politics and false beliefs -- beginning with teaching proper science in school.
Like the scientific community does with Intelligent Design. ...
Ah, refuting bad logic and unsupported assertions is ignoring them and pretending they'll go away.
... Like global warming alarmists do with economic knowledge of the catastrophe that will happen if their brand of 'licence, regulate, restrict, prohibit' is put into place?
Compared to the catastrophe that is occurring due to ignoring climate change?
No, it's strong enough that I don't have to test it, ...
Yep - that's one way to avoid testing it, a cognitive dissonance way.
... the same way you're afraid to test yours with something other than Darwinism.
Curiously I test my faith with ALL substantiated knowledge, not some twisted belief based misrepresentation.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by marc9000, posted 11-20-2013 7:25 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 31 of 126 (711707)
11-21-2013 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by marc9000
11-20-2013 7:43 PM


belief and cognitive dissonance/consonense
dissonance
[dis-uh-nuhns] noun
  1. inharmonious or harsh sound; discord; cacophony.
  2. Music.
    1. a simultaneous combination of tones conventionally accepted as being in a state of unrest and needing completion.
    2. an unresolved, discordant chord or interval. Compare consonance ( def 3 ) . See illus. under resolution.
  3. disagreement or incongruity.
consonance
[kon-suh-nuhns] noun
  1. accord or agreement.
  2. correspondence of sounds; harmony of sounds.
  3. Music. a simultaneous combination of tones conventionally accepted as being in a state of repose. Compare dissonance ( def 2 ) . See illus. under resolution.
    1. the correspondence of consonants, especially those at the end of a word, in a passage of prose or verse. Compare alliteration ( def 1 ) .
    2. the use of the repetition of consonants or consonant patterns as a rhyming device.
  4. Physics. the property of two sounds the frequencies of which have a ratio equal to a small whole number.
world-view
[wurld-vyoo] noun
noun
Weltanschauung.
[velt-ahn-shou-oong]
noun German.
a comprehensive conception or image of the universe and of humanity's relation to it.
Origin: literally, world-view
If we consider our worldview analogous to a cell, then we can consider the cell membrane to be a filter that allows good things (consonant with the worldview) and blocks bad things (dissonant with the worldview).
Any dissonant information that gets inside is then treated like an infection that is either attacked, ignored, neutralized or absorbed and the cell can adapt to accept and use the new information, incorporating it into the worldview.
This is how cognitive dissonance theory predicts behavior related to new information.
In addition the strength of the belief is related to how strongly new information that is dissonant with the belief is attacked or ignored.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by marc9000, posted 11-20-2013 7:43 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 89 of 126 (712079)
11-26-2013 8:02 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by marc9000
11-26-2013 7:36 PM


Just Rocket Science ...
This link is about lost pictures, I think there are others about lost film footage, etc. I saw an article in the local newspaper about 15 years ago that said if we were to return to the moon, everything would have to be done again from scratch. The two guys who designed the rocket boosters retired and took their designs with them, all drawings and documentation was lost, everything.
Even if true it is immaterial ... if we were to go to the moon again an entirely different approach would be used, probably one that would involve the space station and building the moon ship from modules sent there. It would most likely be designed for multiple trips to the moon and back, even for setting up a colony there.
There are also new things known about safety and design, new resources for solar energy and computer hardware, much more compact and lighter than was used before, new 3D design software that can model everything down to the nuts and bolts to streamline design and construction, so why on earth would anyone want to use the same design?
It would not be that difficult to do a whole new design ... after all, it's just rocket science ...
Enjoy
Edited by RAZD, : ..

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by marc9000, posted 11-26-2013 7:36 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by marc9000, posted 11-26-2013 9:02 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1426 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 97 of 126 (712089)
11-26-2013 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by marc9000
11-26-2013 9:02 PM


Re: Just Rocket Science ...
... I just can't believe there's not at least some of the information from the Apollo program that could save some new design/redesign time and expense. ...
Curiously engineering borrows from a lot of sources when doing design, and previous design is one of them. Just look at cars, something old, something new, something borrowed and something blue.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by marc9000, posted 11-26-2013 9:02 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
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