You have persistently hammered one constant point - that God ordered and condoned rape. Then you softened your stance and admitted that the verses you posted could IMPLY rape.
If not rape, what about Gibesh-Giliead? They kidnaped women and took them for 'wives'!
If you do not consider the mosess massacre rape, then it is at least forced servitude to your families murderers. Would you not say that this is not equaly abhorant? Someone kills your family, friends, livestock etc. and then forces you to be someones wife! Sorry, but this is some evil stuff.
Rape or not, horrible attrocities are being commited here. I do apreciate consequentAthiests post, though it still does not justify the twisted morality of the situation.
Are you compeatly blind to the fact that its not right to kill people and take their virgins for whatever purpose, in any context?
Did it ever occur to you that ambushing dancing women and forcing them into marrige is not a good and richeous act?
It is in this context that God makes His judgments upon mankind separated from Him and in constant violation of His law. The reason there is so much blood in the O.T. is because there is so much sin.
Gods people shed most of the blood.
Are you saying that they were clensing the world of sin? It seems they were killing a bunch of babys, burning villages, and abducting virgins for mysterious purposes somehow related to their virginity but not including rape.
The one constant message that God weaves through His word is : Good or bad whatever He says will happen. The risk of defying God is the risk that He will give up on you and judge you according to His law which has the frequent penalty of death.
I think this is the heart of the argument.
So God is like a ruthless dictator. He remains hidden, unseen, and distant. Makes up laws you never heard of, then kills you for breaking them.
Pretend you were a person in that village, never heard of isrealites, God, whatever. Happily tended your goats, farmd your land, and warshiped your own dietis.
One day a bunch of people come over your hill and kill you all because they claim the land is theirs. Given to them centuries back lang before anyone can remember. No one told you, your just dead now.
Kinda reminds me of the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy:
The Vogons come to earth to destroy it and make way for their Hyperspace bypass. The people of earth ask why they didn't get a warning, the vogons explain that the plans had been anounced ages ago, and had been on display in the planing office on a planet some light years away. The people of earth had several centuries in which to apeal the decree at the galactic council, but since they didn't they are going to be destroyed. Of cource, the humans werent even aware of other planets, let alone a planing counsil, so they could have never apealed. Their planet was buldozed by a beurocracy they were never aware existed at all.
God seems to do this alot in the OT. It seems hes doing this to people all over the world all the time.
Sorry, but I don't think it's fair.
The only answer I recive from you is whatver God says goes. Might makes right, and I simply don't think this is acceptable.
If us humans cant tell evil when we see it, or bad when we see it, then what did we gain in the garden?
Willowtree, what is the knowledge of good and evil we gained in the garden?
God says he is subject to this, as he explains that this is the quality that makes us like him. Thus he has the same facility for guaging morality as us. How come I read about murder, infantaside, forced marrige (not rape of cource), and think "gee, thats bad, in any context really", yet god gets to be good and all loving while he does these things?
He said we had the same knowledge of good and evil. Yet I know baby killing is bad. So Willowtree, how come god, with the same knowledge as us, gets to say it's good?
[This message has been edited by Yaro, 12-05-2003]
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