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Author Topic:   Hello everyone
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 196 of 380 (712797)
12-06-2013 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by Atheos canadensis
12-06-2013 6:06 PM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
But don't the holy texts of all the other religions also contain eyewitness testimonies for their particular mythologies?
No. they don't involve history as the Bible does, which needs eyewitnesses to verify it. The Bible is about God acting in history before witnesses who tell us what they saw and why they believed in the God who did what they saw. There is nothing like that in the other religions which are mostly practices. and disciplines to develop "spiritual" powers. Or they require sacrifices to appease a local god. They don't try to prove the existence of God at all, they take God for granted, those religions that believe in God anyway. In the religions that worship local gods, sometimes people see them, sometimes they "manifest." The Bible tells us those are demons. Take it or leave it.
Whoevern Hugh Ross is, he was right.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by Atheos canadensis, posted 12-06-2013 6:06 PM Atheos canadensis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2013 10:54 PM Faith has replied
 Message 204 by Atheos canadensis, posted 12-07-2013 12:33 PM Faith has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 197 of 380 (712802)
12-06-2013 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Faith
12-06-2013 4:21 PM


Yes, that's what you have, that's all you have, that's all any of us ever have. And what IS your point?
Just beyond your grasp.
Don't think so. Uniformitarianism is a theory that applies to a completely unwitnessed situation ...
Like the growth of the apple, then.
That's according to the theory that is. For me, I have lots of witnesses in the Bible ...
That sounds awfully uncomfortable for them. How did you manage to fold them so small? Did they struggle? And before you so cruelly compressed them between the pages of your favorite book, how did you find out that they were witnesses? Witnesses to what? Surely not to the events in the Bible, all those people would be dead, wouldn't they?
but all you have is your specuiations about an unwitnessed past, coupled with others' speculations, but all speculations, no witnesses, no testability, no replicability.
Ah, but y'see, this is not true. It's something you made up. Which kinda vitiates your argument, don't you think?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 4:21 PM Faith has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 198 of 380 (712805)
12-06-2013 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
12-06-2013 7:55 PM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
The Bible is about God acting in history before witnesses who tell us what they saw and why they believed in the God who did what they saw. There is nothing like that in the other religions ...
1 I, Nephi, having been born of goodly parents, therefore I was taught somewhat in all the learning of my father; and having seen many afflictions in the course of my days, nevertheless, having been highly favored of the Lord in all my days; yea, having had a great knowledge of the goodness and the mysteries of God, therefore I make a record of my proceedings in my days.
2 Yea, I make a record in the language of my father, which consists of the learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians.
3 And I know that the record which I make is true; and I make it with mine own hand; and I make it according to my knowledge.
... read on ...
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 7:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:04 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 199 of 380 (712810)
12-07-2013 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Dr Adequate
12-06-2013 10:54 PM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
The totally fictional and perfectly silly Book of Mormon purports to be a history but not for the purpose of proving God's reality and character as is the Bible. But I'm sure you can make it appear otherwise if you have a mind to.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-06-2013 10:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-07-2013 11:41 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 380 (712811)
12-07-2013 2:07 AM


apology
Wish to apologize for hijacking scienceishonesty's thread. Didn't intend to. Always forget how much zeal to argue with me I tend to attract. In any case I'm gone. Carry on.

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 12-07-2013 10:06 AM Faith has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 201 of 380 (712820)
12-07-2013 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
12-07-2013 2:07 AM


Re: apology
As usual.
And you still didn't address the question of who was Admiral Gaspard de Coligny?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 1:59 PM jar has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 202 of 380 (712826)
12-07-2013 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Faith
12-06-2013 1:27 PM


Re: Some apology
Faith writes:
Amazing, you don't hate the murdering isms of this world. How very strange.
quote:
Matthew 5:43-45 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
God bless Stalin and Faith.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 1:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 1:57 PM ringo has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 203 of 380 (712828)
12-07-2013 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
12-07-2013 2:04 AM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
The totally fictional and perfectly silly Book of Mormon purports to be a history but not for the purpose of proving God's reality and character as is the Bible.
They seem fairly similar to me. I mean, they both have stories about God doing magic, what's the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:04 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:00 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Atheos canadensis
Member (Idle past 2997 days)
Posts: 141
Joined: 11-12-2013


Message 204 of 380 (712839)
12-07-2013 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
12-06-2013 7:55 PM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
The Bible is about God acting in history before witnesses who tell us what they saw and why they believed in the God who did what they saw. There is nothing like that in the other religions
Demonstrably false. Sounds like you have about as much integrity as Hugh Ross. From the Qur'an:
quote:
Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, then He established Himself on the throne [of authority]: He draweth the night as a veil o’er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, [all] governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds. (Al-A`raf 7:54)
That is a description of the creation event as the author believes it to have occurred based on divine revelation; this is no different from Genesis. Same goes for Hindu descriptions of creation:
quote:
Brahma raised his arms, and the wind died. The sea fell back and was calm again. He stood up,
and with a sweep of his arms divided the lotus into three parts. The first part was heaven, the next
earth and the next sky. In a single moment, the world had begun.
Brahma clothed the new earth with plants: grass, trees, flowers, vegetables and fruit. To them he
gave the sense of touch. Then he created animals and insects - large and small, in land, sea and
air, some with fur, some with feathers, some with shells, some with scales; large and small, fierce
and timid, fast and slow. To them, as well as the sense of touch, he gave sight, smell, hearing - and above all, the power of movement.
At once the world filled with flurry and bustle. With crashing of branches, clatter of hooves, swishing and swooping, flailing and flapping, the new creatures set off to find homes. Trumpeting, braying,
whistling, chattering, squealing, they ran and wriggled and hopped and flew into every corner of creation. http://web.sis.edu.hk/...ignment%20Y7%20Hindu%20Creation.htm
Here: Norse Creation Myth you can read the Norse creation story
So clearly you are either lying or ignorant when you claim that no other religion offers an explanation of how creation came about. Simply saying that the Bible tells you that all those other religions are human or demon in origin in no way constitutes an actual argument for why your creation myth is the right one. It's the circular reasoning you guys always use; the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 7:55 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:08 PM Atheos canadensis has replied

Atheos canadensis
Member (Idle past 2997 days)
Posts: 141
Joined: 11-12-2013


(1)
Message 205 of 380 (712841)
12-07-2013 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Faith
12-06-2013 4:21 PM


Uniformitarianism is a theory that applies to a completely unwitnessed situation, a time in the past before any human beings existed.
Uniformitarianism is fundamentally the assumption that physical laws in the past operate the same way they have ALWAYS bee observed to work. Deniers of this principle such as yourself never offer a reason or evidence that physical law as observed today is different than physical law in the past. You are forced to reject the entirety of human observation in favour of no observation whatsoever. And don't tell me you have the Bible to guide you. Apart from that being convincing only to you, the Bible doesn't mention decay rates and dendrochronology. Therefore to dispute such lines of evidence you have absolutely nothing to base such disputations upon. I see you've run away now. As I predicted, you are perfectly willing to spray us with your bald assertions but very reluctant to provide support for them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Faith, posted 12-06-2013 4:21 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:19 PM Atheos canadensis has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 206 of 380 (712844)
12-07-2013 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 202 by ringo
12-07-2013 11:30 AM


Re: Some apology
Guess I'm not out of here yet. Oh well. Again you confuse persons with isms. You can't even bring yourself to hate a murdering ideology, how "nice" of you.
However, Jesus did teach us to hate even our own families if they draw us away from the Truth, so your quote is a tad out of context. Also, there are psalms that teach praying for the restraint and even punishment of evil people. Not "carnal" retaliation on our part, since "the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God..." but spiritual. That is, we are not ever advised to use physical force against even the wicked, with the exception of self defense in some circumstances.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 12-07-2013 11:30 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by ringo, posted 12-08-2013 1:43 PM Faith has replied
 Message 320 by New Cat's Eye, posted 12-09-2013 12:13 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 380 (712845)
12-07-2013 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 201 by jar
12-07-2013 10:06 AM


Re: apology
Admiral Gaspard de Coligny was a Huguenot military leader who was killed at the start of the Bartholomew's Day Massacre, jar, as I already said. Funny how you never say anything yourself, you just harangue and harangue and harangue. Just lazy or what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by jar, posted 12-07-2013 10:06 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by jar, posted 12-07-2013 2:13 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 208 of 380 (712846)
12-07-2013 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Dr Adequate
12-07-2013 11:41 AM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
I feel very sorry for you that you can't tell the difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-07-2013 11:41 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-07-2013 8:16 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 209 of 380 (712848)
12-07-2013 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Atheos canadensis
12-07-2013 12:33 PM


Re: Evidence's role in belief vs. knowledge
I didn't say the Bible was only about how God brought about creation, and there's certainly nothing in what you quoted to demonstrate anything more than what I said, that the other religions take God for granted. So you found some descriptions, you did not find them giving evidence for their belief though, did you?
I said the Bible is about God's doings in the world that were witnessed by many people to demonstrate who He really is. Many of the nations round about are said in scripture from time to time to recognize that He really is THE God, the Creator God and not just one of the familiar idol gods of the nations, because of the miracles He did for the Israelites. Rahab recognized it and protected the Israelite soldiers, the midwives of Egypt recognized it and protected the firstborn sons of the Israelites and so on. God showed Himself in the plagues on Egypt along with the Passover protection of those who believed, and many Egyptians came along with the Israelites because they believed He was the true God and not just another little idol god. He showed Himself in the pillar of fire by day and smoke by night as the Israelites traveled. He showed Himself in the parting of the Red Sea. He showed Himself in the miracle of the sun standing still for Joshua, the miracle of Gideon's fleece, the miracle of Samson's strength, the miracles Elijah and Elisha did and so on and so forth, and then of course most dramatically in the miracles performed by Jesus. All to give proof of who He really is, who Jesus really is. Proof, evidence.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Atheos canadensis, posted 12-07-2013 12:33 PM Atheos canadensis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 231 by Atheos canadensis, posted 12-07-2013 11:26 PM Faith has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 210 of 380 (712849)
12-07-2013 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
12-07-2013 1:59 PM


Re: apology
If you had already said that I assume you can provide a link to that post.
Now, yes, he was a Political and Military Huguenot leader. The Huguenots were not just some peacefull religious group, they were a political revolutionary military force.
As is usual, what was called the French Religious Wars were mostly about power, wealth and control.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 1:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Faith, posted 12-07-2013 2:28 PM jar has replied

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