Peanut Gallery for Great debate: radiocarbon dating, Mindspawn and Coyote/RAZD

Of course he hasn't folded his ideas into his P-T-boundary-is-the-fludde speculation. He's trying to compress by a factor of 11-12 which would bring the 14C dates to just before his fludde... but he's got hundreds of millions of years unaccounted for.

It's incredible that Mindspawn is still saying this stuff about Lake Suigetsu. No one has said this isn't possible. What's been said is that the floor of Lake Suigetsu is 20 to 30 meters above sea level, way above the water table, too far above to be affected by it. Plus Mindspawn even quoted one of his own sources saying that tides do not affect the salinity levels of nearby water tables, so his spring tides cannot have the effect he claimed. And the core samples were taken in the center of Lake Suigetsu, miles from the ocean.Even in places where spring tides might have an effect on varve layers (perhaps by spring tides spilling over into a nearby lake, since as mentioned before tides do not affect the salinity of nearby water tables), spring tides occur around 26 times a year, not 12 which is what Mindspawn needs.In other words, not only has Mindspawn presented no evidence that spring tides cause varve layers in Lake Suigetsu, all the evidence we have says it isn't possible, and his own claims don't even produce the result he needs.--Percy

Exactly. This would be an excellent response to the 'see what sticks' proposition that Mindspawn is using as an argument.It's extremely tempting to write Mindspawn off as an idiot. But that would be wrong. The main problem is that Mindspawn is instead a zealot. He is doing exactly what zealots should do to defend their position at any cost. If you are going to enter a debate with him, you should not be doing so with the intent of convincing him that the earth is even one million years old.Anyone can be a zealot, but zeal isn't the least of the problems for this debate.Unfortunately, Mindspawn does not know enough science to vet his own arguments. He may, at some point, come up with some truly difficult questions to ask RAZD. But not until he wades through a bunch of stuff that never should have been posted, and forces RAZD to vet it for him.Nothing for that except patience, and insisting that Mindspawn carry his own water. With regards to salty water tables, Mindspawn has not even raised an issue yet.

Maybe Mindspawn has a weird reading comprehension problem. He does not seem to recognize that some of his own references disagree with his arguments.

Uh, that would be every other spring tide, thank you.See when the sun is on the same side of the earth as the moon, the sun's gravity pulls the salt out of the water table. At the other high tide tide, the sun is on the opposite side of the earth as the moon and pulls salt into the water table.How's your head now?But yes, the idea of the salt clearing out 11 times per year causes me pain too. My whole right side hurts from busting a gut laughing and my noise is still sensitive from all of that diet Mountain Dew squirting out of it on spit takes.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

That is a trait of those who claim to be "Biblical Christians". They do not seem to recognize that the Bible actually refutes all of the positions they claim the Bible supports.

Very common among creationists. They Google up something, read the abstract. look for a few key words if they can get the entire paper, and ignore the rest.

Thanks for that explanation; I feel much better now. But why is my BS alarm ringing?

Yes. In fact there are a couple of biology threads here that consist of a creationist presenting papers he turned up on a search, and the rest of us telling him why those papers don't advance his argument but actually refute it.

Did anyone catch Chuck77's contribution to the Great Debate? It is gone now, but I'm sure it was worthwhile.

I saw it. He claimed that now anyone could post there since someone else posted, and chastised RAZD for posting so many facts and trying to muddy the waters.

RAZD's summary from the Great Debate thread:

RAZD: volumes of objective empirical evidence provided that demonstrates the validity of dendrochronology in general and the four chronologies discussed in particular.

​

mindspawn: no objective empirical evidence presented that actually invalidates them.

Score: RAZD = 1, Mindspawn = 0 (and missing in action)

I think, considering that RAZD steamrolled, destroyed, eviscerated, and flamed everything that Mindspawn spewed, his score should be A LOT higher than 1!

That's was just the first round.RAZD is starting in on varves next.But if Mindspawn fails to come out at the bell, it will be a TKO!

I tried looking up the lake at CMI - no results.At ICR 3 hits:One mentioned the large C14 fluctuations during the last glacial as reported in an article in Nature. They seemed to say this somehow made the study unreliable.One damned the study of the varves for not considering the Flood as an explanation.The last mentioned Suigetsu to show that C14 dates did not agree exactly with the count, and needed to be calibrated., which of course is a major reason for the study of the lake.Interestingly, when I returned to the ICR site to check further, I could get no hits for Suigetsu!
I don't have access to the article in Nature mentioned above, but I guess it was discussing the plateau in C14 ages then.It is a pity we seem to have lost mindspawn.