Peanut Gallery for Great debate: radiocarbon dating, Mindspawn and Coyote/RAZD

I think the different types of decay stuff is secondary. The real problem is that magnetic fields and cosmic radiation do not affect decay rates at all. There is zero evidence of that. In fact we've seen evidence posted here indicating exactly that. Mindspawn's continued blaming of stuff on magnetic fields and earth's tilt (assuming that is what he is still doing) is BS.Instead those things affect the production rate of C-14 from N14, changing the initial ratio of C-14/C-12 in the atmosphere and in living organism. There is a particular reaction chains involved, namely N14 + neutron -> C14 + proton. and we know the rates expected for those induced reactions for a given neutron flux. The production rate is, to first order, proportional to the neutron flux.There is no corresponding, comparable production of heavy elements from atmospheric neutrons produced from cosmic or solar radiation. That's why U-Th dating does not use an atmospheric correction. Magnetism does not do anything to decay rates.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

In a sense, radioactive decay does not have a cause, which is yet another reason why I would resist confusing decay with provoked atom splitting events like fission.As I understand it, a radioactive decay event is a tunneling event and is best described as an uncaused quantum mechanical, effect. I hope the description below is good enough for this discussion. I would modify the description considerably for things like electron capture and spontaneous fission.Taking alpha decay as an example.An alpha particle is a highly stable block of particles, and while inside the nucleus is in an classically energetically allowed energy state. Another classically energetically allowed state is with the alpha particle outside of the nucleus being repelled by coulomb forces. There is an energy barrier caused by nuclear forces that presents an energy hill that the decay particle to be, would under classical mechanics never be able to climb to transition between the two.But nuclei are not well described with classical mechanics. Under those circumstances, and for some nuclei, there is a finite probability that the particle will tunnel through the energy barrier and escape. The parameters that affect that probability are entirely nuclear in nature, and determined by the nuclear structure, the escaping decay particle, nothing else that is not a constant. There is a thread here where some of us discuss those things at some length.Making an atom move faster by heating it up or cooling it does not appreciably change those things unless special relativity rears its head. Not the case for ordinary temperatures and pressures. We know from experiment that magnetic fields don't have much effect either.In a large sample of particles (and even for more massive isotopes, there are statistically large number of nuclei in even micro-gram samples) particles escaping under a fixed probability translates to an exponential decay. In large sample, even moreso. So who says quantum mechanics is just for little things we cannot even see.I've simplified things a bit. Sometimes there is more than one mode of decay because there is more than one particle emission that might occur. But I think I've captured the gist of things.And good luck explaining that stuff to mindspawn. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

The response to this should be that there are no regular influxes, and that hasn't been established. The ocean tide goes in and out, but there is no direct pipeline to the lake. Mindspawn own references already tell him that. Percy pointed that out to Mindspawn in the last thread. Where is any evidence for this?

Exactly. This would be an excellent response to the 'see what sticks' proposition that Mindspawn is using as an argument.It's extremely tempting to write Mindspawn off as an idiot. But that would be wrong. The main problem is that Mindspawn is instead a zealot. He is doing exactly what zealots should do to defend their position at any cost. If you are going to enter a debate with him, you should not be doing so with the intent of convincing him that the earth is even one million years old.Anyone can be a zealot, but zeal isn't the least of the problems for this debate.Unfortunately, Mindspawn does not know enough science to vet his own arguments. He may, at some point, come up with some truly difficult questions to ask RAZD. But not until he wades through a bunch of stuff that never should have been posted, and forces RAZD to vet it for him.Nothing for that except patience, and insisting that Mindspawn carry his own water. With regards to salty water tables, Mindspawn has not even raised an issue yet.

Uh, that would be every other spring tide, thank you.See when the sun is on the same side of the earth as the moon, the sun's gravity pulls the salt out of the water table. At the other high tide tide, the sun is on the opposite side of the earth as the moon and pulls salt into the water table.How's your head now?But yes, the idea of the salt clearing out 11 times per year causes me pain too. My whole right side hurts from busting a gut laughing and my noise is still sensitive from all of that diet Mountain Dew squirting out of it on spit takes.Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Yes. In fact there are a couple of biology threads here that consist of a creationist presenting papers he turned up on a search, and the rest of us telling him why those papers don't advance his argument but actually refute it.

Did anyone catch Chuck77's contribution to the Great Debate? It is gone now, but I'm sure it was worthwhile.