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Author Topic:   Do We NEED God?
Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


Message 88 of 224 (715049)
12-31-2013 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Stile
12-30-2013 10:52 AM


Re: Gambling on God
Stile writes:
The similarities, to me, are obvious.
You can't stop gambling because the lure of the money-happiness to you personally is overwhelming.
The desire for unlimited funds to ease your worrying overrides the scientific evidence of the odds.
You can't stop needing God because the lure of the love-happiness to you personally is overwhelming.
The desire for unlimited life to ease your worrying overrides the scientific evidence of reality.
I never wanna be that guy who just steps into an ongoing conversation, but I feel the need to speak up
I think the biggest tragedy within Christianity is how terribly we have misrepresented what we stand for, causing others to interpret what they see in Christianity as it's value rather than what Jesus actually taught, and what that book really says.
But first thing's first Science cannot prove the existence of God, or anything else supernatural for that matter. It hypothesizes on, tests, and explains what is observable only. Therefore, science does not need to prove the reality of "a great other" in order to believe in one; it merely cannot. And probably should not, looking at history haha.
You use the term "reality" as the standard for what is true and what is not. What is your standard for reality? What is real? Anything which science proves? Perhaps I'm the only making assumptions here, and if that is the case, call me out. We all have those annoying little assumptions we bring with us haha. But if that is the case, if science is the standard for what is "reality, "then again, science cannot prove anything outside the natural world. So, since science cannot prove the existence of the supernatural, "God,"in this case, let's look at something that claims to be able to do that. Scripture. Is scripture valid? I don't know. I believe it is, and if we actually take a second to look at what it says, it might turn out to be a little different than what our presuppositions tell us.
So let's take a look at what the text actually says:
Romans 5:1-4 writes:
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance..
I love this! Here we see what's really going on. God, in his grace and mercy, has not only saved the entire world (you, me, everyone who has ever existed and will exist), but guaranteed our salvation (religious term that means YOU ARE GOING TO HEAVEN MAN). So we wait in expectant hope of his guarantee, instead of wanting to live forever purely based on selfish desire. Why save us? Save us from what? When we read more (Romans 3 and 5 are great examples) we find that humanity is innately in need of a savior. So, in response to you, Stile, God loves you man, you may not understand this or even know why He needs to, but He does. I encourage you to maybe open that book for yourself and see what's inside. I don't know what kind of person you are dude, or your story, but rest assured that even if you don't need him, he needs you.
And I think that's really what it's about. Do we NEED God? Probably. Does God need us? Definitely.
Hope this clears some things up!
Phat writes:
Perhaps a question---would people even want to have a relationship with a Creator if they felt they didn't need anything??
I think you hit the hammer on the nail buddy. Scripture teaches us that humanity is born with a need. We need to be saved. I think it's super easy to merely focus on candy instead of potatoes. Meaning we focus on our day-to-day needs and wants rather than the fact that we are utterly in need of something greater: life. help. grace. Well somethings . The moment we realize that, everything changes. I do not love my God for any personal gain or comfort reasons--actually Jesus makes it clear that denying yourself and following Him is a sacrifice, it probably won't be easy--rather because I was broken, and now I'm a little bit less broken . And we're all broken in some way, aren't we? He heals. It's Jesus stuff.
Regards yall!
- Raph
Edited by Raphael, : No reason given.
Edited by Raphael, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Stile, posted 12-30-2013 10:52 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Stile, posted 01-02-2014 11:10 AM Raphael has replied

  
Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


(1)
Message 91 of 224 (715283)
01-03-2014 12:13 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Stile
01-02-2014 11:10 AM


Re: Nothing works for everyone
Stile writes:
If you're saying that you don't need science to prove the reality of something in order for you to believe in it... I agree. You can believe in whatever you'd like.
I like your spirit dude. Even your title, "nothing works for everyone," I love that! I love that because that is what Christianity has done so often; create this cookie-cutter, clone-like, "works for everyone" kind of mentality. A mentality that says "if you don't look a certain way or act a certain way, you cannot join "Club Christian" as Jar would say haha. But that is so frustratingly wrong, since the spiritual life different for everyone. Spirituality is messy! Thanks for your open-mindedness homie.
Stile writes:
I don't know what my standard for reality is. It's not limited to "science" nor is it as open as "anything I read."
I think science is man's best known method for identifying reality.
I don't think it's the only one.
I think it's possible something better may be described by some genius one day.
Again, you are clearly an intelligent, open minded individual and I respect that. I agree with everything you just said.
Stile writes:
No, scripture is not valid.
I see. And that's where we differ, right? You believe that since there is uncertainty, it cannot be trusted. At least that's what I'm assuming, could be wrong. I believe that scripture is valid. I don't think I need to prove it is, though we could go down that road. I don't think you're here because you're hoping someone will give you the magic answer, quelling all doubts, convincing you to make the shape shift into a religious person haha. All I can say is I was lost, and now I am found. Me. Tony. He changed my life.
Stile writes:
That sounds like a good belief.
But, as it is based on your belief that scripture is valid, it is your belief. I don't intend to offend you, but (for me) I do not believe that these verses you've quoted have any validity at all, therefore I do not believe in your conclusion.
That's totally fine. I guess it's a faith issue right?
It's not about Churches or choirs or doctrine or theology or pastors or priests or saints or sinners or gays or abortion or heaven or even hell, it's about Jesus. The historical character Jesus who claimed to be God. He doesn't tell you to go to church. He says:
Matthew 11:28 writes:
28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
That's what it's about. Plain and simple. Maybe you're searching for something better? Maybe I am. Maybe we all are?
Stile writes:
I have no idea if you're actually right or not... you may very well be correct and I'm wrong. But, from my experience with scripture, I believe that you are mistaken.
You know what, at the end of the day, "being right" isn't really what I'm concerned with. I honesntly don't think I'm right. No way could i get it, 100%, with zero error. All I have is scripture and my subjective experience. There's plenty I don't know man. But what is do know is what Jesus talks about. Something more than this. Something greater. Our part in a greater story. Your part dude.
Stile writes:
This, I agree with. Kind of.
I do believe that humanity is born with a need... all sorts of needs.
Physical and spiritual.
Our physical needs are rather obvious.. things like food and water and (for most of us) social interaction and such...
Totally agree. We don't need to agree that humanity needs grace, we simply do, if we're pointing to scripture as the basis of that statement. And we have it, freely given, no strings attached. But we don't agree that scripture is valid, and that's fine.
Stile writes:
I agree that "we're all broken in some way." We all have our pasts.
I just don't agree that Jesus is required for the healing.
True man, true. It's rough sometimes right? And great others. That's cool. I guess when it comes down to it, scripture says humanity has a need: we are lost. But God, as the One who transcends all, in His mercy and love, took responsibility for our getting lost, and now we have an incredible gift in store: literal co-heir status alongside Jesus Christ (Galatians 4, Ephesians 2), a better place, past our daily struggles and frustrations, and life forever. Not because I was a good person, or even good from my subjective perspective, not because I prayed a prayer or sang a song or made a confession or even attended a church, but simply because that's who God is, and it's yours too.
Regards!
- Raph

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Stile, posted 01-02-2014 11:10 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by Stile, posted 01-03-2014 10:04 AM Raphael has not replied

  
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