Stile writes:
If you're saying that you don't need science to prove the reality of something in order for you to believe in it... I agree. You can believe in whatever you'd like.
I like your spirit dude. Even your title, "nothing works for everyone," I love that! I love that because that is what Christianity has done so often; create this cookie-cutter, clone-like, "works for everyone" kind of mentality. A mentality that says "if you don't
look a certain way or act a certain way, you cannot join "Club Christian" as Jar would say haha. But that is so frustratingly wrong, since the spiritual life different for everyone. Spirituality is messy! Thanks for your open-mindedness homie.
Stile writes:
I don't know what my standard for reality is. It's not limited to "science" nor is it as open as "anything I read."
I think science is man's best known method for identifying reality.
I don't think it's the only one.
I think it's possible something better may be described by some genius one day.
Again, you are clearly an intelligent, open minded individual and I respect that. I agree with everything you just said.
Stile writes:
No, scripture is not valid.
I see. And that's where we differ, right? You believe that since there is uncertainty, it cannot be trusted. At least that's what I'm assuming, could be wrong. I believe that scripture is valid. I don't think I need to prove it is, though we could go down that road. I don't think you're here because you're hoping someone will give you the magic answer, quelling all doubts, convincing you to make the shape shift into a religious person haha. All I can say is I was lost, and now I am found. Me. Tony. He changed my life.
Stile writes:
That sounds like a good belief.
But, as it is based on your belief that scripture is valid, it is your belief. I don't intend to offend you, but (for me) I do not believe that these verses you've quoted have any validity at all, therefore I do not believe in your conclusion.
That's totally fine. I guess it's a faith issue right?
It's not about Churches or choirs or doctrine or theology or pastors or priests or saints or sinners or gays or abortion or heaven or even hell, it's about Jesus. The historical character Jesus who claimed to be God. He doesn't tell you to go to church. He says:
Matthew 11:28 writes:
28 Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
That's what it's about. Plain and simple. Maybe you're searching for something better? Maybe I am. Maybe we all are?
Stile writes:
I have no idea if you're actually right or not... you may very well be correct and I'm wrong. But, from my experience with scripture, I believe that you are mistaken.
You know what, at the end of the day, "being right" isn't really what I'm concerned with. I honesntly don't think I'm right. No way could i get it, 100%, with zero error. All I have is scripture and my subjective experience. There's plenty I don't know man. But what is do know is what Jesus talks about. Something more than this. Something greater. Our part in a greater story. Your part dude.
Stile writes:
This, I agree with. Kind of.
I do believe that humanity is born with a need... all sorts of needs.
Physical and spiritual.
Our physical needs are rather obvious.. things like food and water and (for most of us) social interaction and such...
Totally agree. We don't need to agree that humanity needs grace, we simply do, if we're pointing to scripture as the basis of that statement. And we have it, freely given, no strings attached. But we don't agree that scripture is valid, and that's fine.
Stile writes:
I agree that "we're all broken in some way." We all have our pasts.
I just don't agree that Jesus is required for the healing.
True man, true. It's rough sometimes right? And great others. That's cool. I guess when it comes down to it, scripture says humanity has a need: we are lost. But God, as the One who transcends all, in His mercy and love, took responsibility for our getting lost, and now we have an incredible gift in store: literal co-heir status alongside Jesus Christ (Galatians 4, Ephesians 2), a better place, past our daily struggles and frustrations, and life forever. Not because I was a good person, or even good from my subjective perspective, not because I prayed a prayer or sang a song or made a confession or even attended a church, but simply because that's who God is, and it's yours too.
Regards!
- Raph