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Author Topic:   Creo/Evo Forum Closing
IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4436 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 1 of 10 (71018)
12-04-2003 3:29 PM


Hey guys, hope this is in the right forum...
Some of you might have noticed that http://www.christiansunite.com have decided to shut down their creationism/evolution forum. Here's the notice:
quote:
To Creation vs. Evolution Area Users,
Area Deletion 12-08-2003
It has been determined this topic is not compatible with the focus of Christians Unite. Our focus is the Teachings of the Holy Bible and worship of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ.
This area will be deleted on Monday, 12-08-2003, and Creation vs. Evolution will no longer be a topic discussed on Christians Unite. The Theory of Evolution, pro or con, will not be an allowed topic in any area of Christians Unite.
This notice is being given to allow users to make copies of their work over the weekend. The entire area will be deleted on Monday, 12-08-2003.
We hope you understand the purpose of this decision. Further, we welcome all users of the Creation vs. Evolution area to continue using Christians Unite and enjoy the Christian topics that will always remain our primary focus.
Thanks in advance for your understanding.
Moderator
The link won't work after Monday, obviously.
On one hand, I'm disappointed because I really enjoyed debating in that forum. On the other hand, it almost feels like a victory for evolution - rather then see the debate move to its natural conclusion, the moderators killed it before it got too dangerous. Like sticking your fingers in your ears and going "Lah lah lah I can't hear you" will make the problem go away.
But I also think it's so much better for evolution to be debated in a scientific forum lke this one, rather than one dedicated to a particular religion. So I kind of agree with the decision.
Ok, getting to a point here... should the creationism/evolution debate be restricted to scientific forums? Or should Christian forums be in on it too, seeing as they have a vested interest in the outcome?
I honestly don't know, myself. I really think that such forums on Christian sites should be supported, because people should be informed and should have an area to discuss their opinions.
The Rock Hound

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by zephyr, posted 12-04-2003 3:52 PM IrishRockhound has replied
 Message 4 by Chiroptera, posted 12-04-2003 7:42 PM IrishRockhound has not replied
 Message 8 by Rand Al'Thor, posted 12-05-2003 10:33 PM IrishRockhound has not replied
 Message 10 by Brad McFall, posted 12-08-2003 12:44 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
zephyr
Member (Idle past 4550 days)
Posts: 821
From: FOB Taji, Iraq
Joined: 04-22-2003


Message 2 of 10 (71023)
12-04-2003 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
12-04-2003 3:29 PM


Do you feel like the moderation is fair on many of those sites?
I lack the time to even keep up very well here, and haven't really been offsite in the e-vs-c arena except when someone here linked to a good topic... but it seems like many have such heavily biased moderation (to the point of censorship) that the discussion may not be informative to the ignorant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 12-04-2003 3:29 PM IrishRockhound has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by :æ:, posted 12-04-2003 7:20 PM zephyr has not replied
 Message 7 by IrishRockhound, posted 12-05-2003 9:46 AM zephyr has not replied

  
:æ: 
Suspended Member (Idle past 7185 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 3 of 10 (71054)
12-04-2003 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by zephyr
12-04-2003 3:52 PM


IrishRockHound writes:
...should the creationism/evolution debate be restricted to scientific forums? Or should Christian forums be in on it too, seeing as they have a vested interest in the outcome?
If Evangelical Christian Orthodoxy (which typically includes a belief in YEC) had no reason to hide from plain facts and evidence, then I would think that they would openly welcome such discussion. Unfortunately it appears that they do need to stick their fingers in their ears and sing "La La La La!!" since certain tenets of their faith are obviously contradicted by reality.
I think that its high time that contemporary religious fundamentalist YECs like those at ChristiansUnite come to terms with the facts. Nobody is requiring them to relinquish their faith entirely, but if they are going to claim that they hold the one-and-only Absolute Truth(tm), then they should be willing to subject it to rigorous scrutiny. Closing down the C/E forum at their site seems to imply that they are not so willing.
A favorite poster of mine from another forum always had this quote from Arthur C. Clarke in his sig:
"A faith that cannot survive a collision with the truth is not worth many regrets"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by zephyr, posted 12-04-2003 3:52 PM zephyr has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 10 (71057)
12-04-2003 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
12-04-2003 3:29 PM


Well, if the forum were dedicated to issues concerning a particular religion or denomination, and it was felt that the theory of evolution was relevant to the beliefs of that group, then, yes, I can't imagine how evolution could not be discussed. Unless it was such a controversial topic that it distracted from what the site managers felt is the purpose of their forum.
It seems to me that if someone puts up and maintains a website, it is for them to decide on the purpose of that site and what is relevant to that purpose. Of course, it does seem rather unethical if the content is determined solely for their propaganda value.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 12-04-2003 3:29 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Andya Primanda, posted 12-05-2003 4:02 AM Chiroptera has not replied
 Message 6 by Andya Primanda, posted 12-05-2003 4:03 AM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 10 (71130)
12-05-2003 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Chiroptera
12-04-2003 7:42 PM


That makes me wonder... Almost all religious forums that talks about e vs c are Christian. As a Muslim I am still looking for an Islamic site that features the e vs c debate, regardless of their affiliation. The creationists among Muslims (eg Harun Yahya) does not set up any forum in their many sites. And the evolutionists are silent.
Just a rant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Chiroptera, posted 12-04-2003 7:42 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 10 (71131)
12-05-2003 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Chiroptera
12-04-2003 7:42 PM


sorry double post
[This message has been edited by Andya Primanda, 12-05-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Chiroptera, posted 12-04-2003 7:42 PM Chiroptera has not replied

  
IrishRockhound
Member (Idle past 4436 days)
Posts: 569
From: Ireland
Joined: 05-19-2003


Message 7 of 10 (71173)
12-05-2003 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by zephyr
12-04-2003 3:52 PM


What I found to be a little unfair was the rule that no one could 'blaspheme' (sp?) about Christianity, but the creos could slander evolution and evolutionists all they want. There was a definite double standard. Other than that, the moderating was more or less non-existant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by zephyr, posted 12-04-2003 3:52 PM zephyr has not replied

  
Rand Al'Thor
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 10 (71310)
12-05-2003 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
12-04-2003 3:29 PM


Well this isn't very surprising. This is just another example of Christians just ignoring problems with their beliefs. To use your words going "Lah lah lah I can't hear you"
If the people that ran that website really wanted to improve their religion and be open minded they would have kept the forum open indefinitely. But, I think that this does show that evolution is considered a threat by Christians and their leaders.
Hopefully the closure of that forum will prompt some Christians to think independently for once and come over to scientific forums like this one to debate their beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 12-04-2003 3:29 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 10 (71400)
12-06-2003 8:01 PM


There are, imo, some basic flaws in the understanding of some fundamentalistic think tanks on origins which have been ingrained into evangelicals, liminiting their ability to refute their ideological counterparts. Here are a few:
1. The illogical and unscriptural idea that the earth and the universe is only 6000 years old. This leaves God all alone out in space with nothing around him and nothing to do throughout the previous eons of eternity. They are not understanding Genesis one.
2. The conventional understanding of the dinosaurs is flawed. They were serpents and the original serpents of Genesis one were cursed and changed into the belly crawling reptiles we see today. Thus NONE of the dinosaurs were in the ark.
3. Too many Christians are simply too lazy to do the homework on this stuff and things like the prophecies so as to effectively debate those of their counterparts who have done their homework. I may not agree with the doctrines of the resident evos here in town, but I have certainly come to respect that most have done their homework on presenting their side of the debate. I've also learned that you don't charge into a debate with the locals gangbuster style and expect to survive ideologically. They keep us honest. The challenge for us is to keep them also accountable, forthright and honest in presenting their views. It took me six pages in the young sun thread to accomplish this on the issue of appearance of age, though nobody will likely admit to that.

  
Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5033 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 10 of 10 (71580)
12-08-2003 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
12-04-2003 3:29 PM


I actually NOW after years of writing see the whole thing as a "seamles" whole- so I really can not answer this kind of question. Mostl likely it really comes down to having enough dough to keep molding the best visual attractive cyberspace to keep a certain kind of atmosphere. But that is simly the audio dept of c/e overtaking any electron. Technology is not C/E preciesly in the sense that Gould noticed Paley saying adaptively that there is something that is not "prefection" but 'above' any amount of computation. There are attempts to make the "comptuer" something that is not only better calcuating device and it is likely this trend and not any "interst" that may have influenced such a decision. I for one would not want the "two" isps or subnet mask social enginerring to control the KIND OF LINGUISTICS that predominates but if one follows Chomsky....I do not.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 12-04-2003 3:29 PM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
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