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Author Topic:   Bible and Plagiarism
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 46 of 51 (715689)
01-08-2014 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by AZPaul3
01-07-2014 1:10 PM


Re: Plagiarism
AZPaul3 writes:
As for owning ideas ... all of patent and copyright law are built specifically to accomplish this very thing.
Not really. A copyright protects the publisher, not the author; it protects the right to copy. When copying was expensive, it had some meaning; now, not so much.
The only right an author and/or an inventor has is to choose who has the right to copy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by AZPaul3, posted 01-07-2014 1:10 PM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 01-08-2014 4:57 PM ringo has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 51 (715723)
01-08-2014 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by ringo
01-08-2014 10:40 AM


Re: Plagiarism
Not really. A copyright protects the publisher, not the author; it protects the right to copy. When copying was expensive, it had some meaning; now, not so much.
Your economic analysis is a quite a bit off. Your statement of the law is even further off.
First, copyright beyond protecting the right to copy, assigns to authors, the sole right to copy, distribute, to publicly perform a work, and to make derivative works. Authors get paid for assigning one or more of these rights to publishers. So to pretend that protecting copyright does not protect the author is just wrong. Publishers pay because the right granted by the author can be exclusive.
That's not to say that authors in some industries don't get the bad end of the deals, but without copyright protection, there would be no deal at all.
Secondly, the ease of copying actual makes the right to restrict copying more valuable rather than less valuable. The economics has been favorable to pirating or illegal copying at every time since Guttenberg. Despite the fact that people are downloading music with impunity, the music industry is still thriving.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by ringo, posted 01-08-2014 10:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by ringo, posted 01-09-2014 10:53 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 48 of 51 (715799)
01-09-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 47 by NoNukes
01-08-2014 4:57 PM


Re: Plagiarism
NoNukes writes:
First, copyright beyond protecting the right to copy, assigns to authors, the sole right to copy, distribute, to publicly perform a work, and to make derivative works.
My point being that (in the past) the author was entirely at the mercy of the publisher who had the ability to do the copying.
NoNukes writes:
The economics has been favorable to pirating or illegal copying at every time since Guttenberg.
I don't think so. The cost of buying the rights to a book was (in the past) relatively small compared to the cost of typesetting, printing, etc. Today, the packaging costs more than the copying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 01-08-2014 4:57 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 897
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 49 of 51 (715817)
01-09-2014 12:00 PM


SUBTITLES
I'm pretty sure we're able to come up with a better subtitle than 'Plagiarism' for this thread.

  
Raphael
Member (Idle past 462 days)
Posts: 173
From: Southern California, United States
Joined: 09-29-2007


(1)
Message 50 of 51 (715858)
01-09-2014 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by PlanManStan
01-07-2014 5:04 PM


Re: What is faith? - The conclusion
PlanManStan writes:
Wait, but doesn't that seem like a somewhat weak argument? For example, that Quaran quote that I made, doesn't it affirm Allah's existence? I guess, as I said above, it depends on the relationship of the Christian and Muslim gods. I could see it going either way and it is pointless to argue it.
Haha. Sure, I suppose it could be considered a weak argument. But that's the difficult part which we all need to wrestle with: Who affirms your faith? If, for instance, you were a Muslim, does your subjective experience affirm that Allah exists? What are the things which do so? If it does, then more power to you!
But at the same time, I would say that humanity is getting better. Not only is slavery widely abolished, but it is mostly the older generations that cling to racism and close-mindedness. I suspect that in 50 years time, the world will have quite a different outlook
I agree with that. The world is going awesome places, and changing in many positive ways. I don't think Christianity opposes this view, rather embraces these positive changes. What Christianity does do is state that the problem here is not someone else, but me, and that I need to check my own heart, my own motives, and realize that we are all in this thing called humanity together. Once the problem becomes us, we can recognize that since much grace, love, hope, and kindness has been shown to us through Jesus, we can do the same here, now, spurring us onward together to do the same to our world, all the while recognizing that nobody is better than anyone else. We're all in this together dude!
So I see your point, but the question now is what are the benefits and negatives of religion. In other words, what can you get from religion that you get no where else and what negatives go along with it?
Haha. I think you're on the right track, but that's actually not what I'm getting at at all. Religion is mostly oppressive, traditional, and guilt-inducing. Religion creates a culture of pretending. Religion begins with good intentions but ends up becoming self-centered because the nature of humanity is self-centered. But Jesus is a little different. Jesus taught us to love those who oppress us. Love those whom we would consider enemies. To do more than is required, to actually sacrifice so that others may benefit, always looking at the other person before ourselves. And Jesus said that as long as those things are a priority, we would all be a part of a place where the things we all hate don't exist. It's ours. Those are the things I cling to.
I see your point at the end, that there are reasons for belief. I totally think so. The only thing left is "are they valid reasons?".
That's for you to decide Nobody can make that decision for you. Or me for that matter. But, considering the reasons, are they valid? Something I realized is we literally have nothing to lose by believing. If there is no God, hey, at least we loved some people right? And if there is, well, what he promises us is more incredible than we can imagine. But there definitely is
Regards!
- Raph

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by PlanManStan, posted 01-07-2014 5:04 PM PlanManStan has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by PlanManStan, posted 01-10-2014 5:23 PM Raphael has not replied

  
PlanManStan
Member (Idle past 3687 days)
Posts: 73
Joined: 12-12-2013


Message 51 of 51 (715982)
01-10-2014 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Raphael
01-09-2014 4:13 PM


Re: What is faith? - The conclusion
Hey Raph, sorry for the late response!
and realize that we are all in this thing called humanity together. Once the problem becomes us, we can recognize that since much grace, love, hope, and kindness has been shown to us through Jesus, we can do the same here, now, spurring us onward together to do the same to our world, all the while recognizing that nobody is better than anyone else. We're all in this together dude!
I see that, but is religion (and Jesus) really required for this? I mean, from a non-religious point of view, we are literally all one big family!
But Jesus is a little different. Jesus taught us to love those who oppress us. Love those whom we would consider enemies. To do more than is required, to actually sacrifice so that others may benefit, always looking at the other person before ourselves. And Jesus said that as long as those things are a priority, we would all be a part of a place where the things we all hate don't exist. It's ours. Those are the things I cling to.
I respect that. However, keep in mind that it is a requirement of Muslims to donate a given portion of their wealth each year to charity, as well as be good to one another. I remember hearing a story of a Muslim who was stranded in Indonesia, but found a Muslim church (?) who immediately took him in and cared for him until he could catch a plane out of the country and back home. Also, while what Jesus preached was wonderful (albeit he wasn't too separate from other greats), that isn't necessarily what people ended up practicing, and that is what you really should look at when examining a religion, not what was preached but what is done.
That's for you to decide Nobody can make that decision for you.
I guess we're done here, then
Have a nice 2014!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Raphael, posted 01-09-2014 4:13 PM Raphael has not replied

  
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