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Author Topic:   bio evolution, light, sound and aroma
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 10 of 142 (716554)
01-18-2014 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Col2v8
01-18-2014 10:24 PM


If it doesn't literally know anything, how does it know how to select in a natural manner?
Do dice know anything when you roll them?
Try this: Roll a dozen dice. A couple of them will most likely come up sixes. Keep those and take all the rest and roll them again. Maybe a couple more sixes, eh? Do this until you have all sixes.
How do the dice know? How do they know???
Now, do the same thing with any living organism and kill off all of the population with a specific trait. Assuming you aren't killing them all off, in a few hundred thousand, or a million years, what do you expect you'll find?
Again, how do they know???

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Col2v8, posted 01-18-2014 10:24 PM Col2v8 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Col2v8, posted 01-19-2014 9:16 AM Coyote has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 81 of 142 (717291)
01-26-2014 12:42 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by AndrewPD
01-26-2014 12:09 AM


No magic needed
The point I made is that mutating genes have no idea what environment they are in so why should any mutation be favourable to the environmental context? (This was the gist of the original post in this thread)
Of course the mutating genes have no idea of what they "should" be doing.
Gene mutations are just accidents, some simple and some more complex. And some happen to be better suited for the current environments, while others are deleterious.
So, guess which ones are more likely to be passed down to descendants?
And in the case polar bears and other white animals that are camouflaged their genes are totally unaware they are living in a white environment. For a gene to create such a specific, valuable, environment-matching adaptation is indeed rather like magic. And was this alleged transition series observed or is it speculated out of necessity because the theory demands it?
Again, gene mutations are accidents. But the individuals who inherit those genes may be more, or less, suited to a particular environment and this has a direct bearing on whether they pass those genes on.
Within most organisms (or rather populations) there is quite a range of variation. Some are better adapted, others not so. If the environment changes, the ones who are better adapted might no longer be so, while others might suddenly become better adapted.
No magic needed.
Here is an on-line lecture that helps to explain how things can evolve naturally:
Making Genetic Networks Operate Robustly: Unintelligent Non-design Suffices, by Professor Garrett Odell (online lecture):
Abstract: Mathematical computer models of two ancient and famous genetic networks act early in embryos of many different species to determine the body plan. Models revealed these networks to be astonishingly robust, despite their 'unintelligent design.' This examines the use of mathematical models to shed light on how biological, pattern-forming gene networks operate and how thoughtless, haphazard, non-design produces networks whose robustness seems inspired, begging the question what else unintelligent non-design might be capable of.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by AndrewPD, posted 01-26-2014 12:09 AM AndrewPD has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2127 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 105 of 142 (717477)
01-27-2014 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Dogmafood
01-27-2014 10:28 PM


Re: Assumptions
And some nasty (and continuing) wars.
The problem isn't those who would die for their faith.
The problem is those who would kill for their faith.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Dogmafood, posted 01-27-2014 10:28 PM Dogmafood has seen this message but not replied

  
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