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Author Topic:   Who hurts the US Healthcare system worse?
Whaitere
Junior Member (Idle past 2625 days)
Posts: 9
From: San Diego, CA
Joined: 01-13-2002


Message 286 of 316 (717366)
01-26-2014 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by New Cat's Eye
01-26-2014 11:18 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Well I'm sorry to have wasted your time friend.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-26-2014 11:18 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 10:11 AM Whaitere has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 287 of 316 (717416)
01-27-2014 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by Whaitere
01-26-2014 6:00 PM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Its no biggie. So what do you think? Would lowering the pay that doctors receive be an improvement?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by Whaitere, posted 01-26-2014 6:00 PM Whaitere has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2014 10:16 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(5)
Message 288 of 316 (717417)
01-27-2014 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 287 by New Cat's Eye
01-27-2014 10:11 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Its no biggie. So what do you think? Would lowering the pay that doctors receive be an improvement?
Alone? I doubt it.
The major cost of US health care is due to excess profit grabbing by insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and for-profit hospital corporations.
Health related industries should be non-profit organizations.
When the motive for service is profit people suffer.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 10:11 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 11:29 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 294 by frako, posted 01-28-2014 6:13 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 316 (717432)
01-27-2014 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by RAZD
01-27-2014 10:16 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Alone? I doubt it.
Well that's good.
The major cost of US health care is due to excess profit grabbing by insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies and for-profit hospital corporations.
Health related industries should be non-profit organizations.
When the motive for service is profit people suffer.
Part of the problem with for-profit healthcare, is that as a consumer you often don't have a choice in your demand. That is, if you don't buy what they are selling you, then you could die. It hard to find good competition when the clock is ticking and you really really need what they are selling.
I think for-profit systems could work just fine, but you need educated consumers with access to competition.
I don't think its something that can work on a national level here in the U.S. Not just because of the system, itself, but because the consumers can't handle it. Too often people don't go to the doctor and act like a customer, they see the doctor as some kind of infallible authority. And the People don't seem to want to take matters into their own hands. We, the People, could stand up and push back on the healthcare market and demand better service and costs and funnel our business where that occurs, but its seems that people would rather just leave it up to the government to take care of them. So in that sense, yeah, they all need some help.
I don't think it means we need to eliminate a private for-profit sector, though. For the people that can handle it, I think it yields much better results for the individual.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2014 10:16 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 290 by Whaitere, posted 01-27-2014 1:42 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 292 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2014 5:00 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 296 by Taq, posted 01-28-2014 6:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
Whaitere
Junior Member (Idle past 2625 days)
Posts: 9
From: San Diego, CA
Joined: 01-13-2002


Message 290 of 316 (717444)
01-27-2014 1:42 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by New Cat's Eye
01-27-2014 11:29 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Well for me I think a lot of what you speak of stems from the Insurance companies themselves. I understand why having an intermediary between healthcare professionals and their customers is probably overall a good idea, but I am either too stupid or too stubborn to comprehend why things cost they way they do in our current system. So I guess I'd have to say my problem isn't directly with doctor compensation, even though they've benefited tremendously. I've always been of the belief that the inflated healthcare costs were manufactured by the Insurance companies, and the doctors merely benefited from the overflow.
Wanted to add on that I agree with what RAZD said that the healthcare industries should be regulated as Not for Profit.
Edited by Whaitere, : add on

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 11:29 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by xongsmith, posted 01-27-2014 4:35 PM Whaitere has not replied
 Message 295 by onifre, posted 01-28-2014 10:01 AM Whaitere has replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2578
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 291 of 316 (717449)
01-27-2014 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by Whaitere
01-27-2014 1:42 PM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Whatitere writes:
Well for me I think a lot of what you speak of stems from the Insurance companies themselves.
And the insurance industry is also getting it from the doctors with exorbitant malpractice premiums. Talk about pigs in shit, they are reaping zillions from both sides!
Another thing, today's doctors coming out of medical school typically are under the glacier weight of student loans of over half a million and beyond, payable at 3000/month for 40 years or so.
The world is very different for doctors than it was a mere 50 years ago.

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Whaitere, posted 01-27-2014 1:42 PM Whaitere has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by ramoss, posted 01-27-2014 9:53 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1404 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 292 of 316 (717451)
01-27-2014 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by New Cat's Eye
01-27-2014 11:29 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Just drop the medicare eligibility age a year every year, and in 60 years we would have single payer medical system. Everyone would have time to adjust.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 11:29 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 611 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


(1)
Message 293 of 316 (717474)
01-27-2014 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by xongsmith
01-27-2014 4:35 PM


Re: Good is related to ability,
One thing that is not often noted is that the health care insurence companies profit when up 250% in the last decade before ACA.
Stock Portfolio & Tracker - Yahoo Finance

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by xongsmith, posted 01-27-2014 4:35 PM xongsmith has not replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


(1)
Message 294 of 316 (717481)
01-28-2014 6:13 AM
Reply to: Message 288 by RAZD
01-27-2014 10:16 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
When the motive for service is profit people suffer.
Well duh if your motive is profit healing people fast and cheap is not your goal your goal is to keep them in hospitals and on medication for as long as possible so you can charge them more.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 288 by RAZD, posted 01-27-2014 10:16 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2950 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 295 of 316 (717489)
01-28-2014 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 290 by Whaitere
01-27-2014 1:42 PM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Are you Percy's boss?
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 290 by Whaitere, posted 01-27-2014 1:42 PM Whaitere has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Whaitere, posted 01-29-2014 11:30 AM onifre has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


(1)
Message 296 of 316 (717545)
01-28-2014 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by New Cat's Eye
01-27-2014 11:29 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Part of the problem with for-profit healthcare, is that as a consumer you often don't have a choice in your demand. That is, if you don't buy what they are selling you, then you could die. It hard to find good competition when the clock is ticking and you really really need what they are selling.
To put it another way, if you have a product that the public, literally, can not live without, why would you ever sacrifice profits in order to make sure it is affordable to everyone?
The laws of capitalism would say that you need to increase what you charge in order to maximize profits, not availability. If maximizing profits means out-pricing 10% of the public, then that is what you do, and that is exactly where we ended up in this country.
I don't think its something that can work on a national level here in the U.S. Not just because of the system, itself, but because the consumers can't handle it. Too often people don't go to the doctor and act like a customer, they see the doctor as some kind of infallible authority. And the People don't seem to want to take matters into their own hands.
The rampant dogma against socialism on the political right is what is preventing us from getting universal, single payer healthcare.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-27-2014 11:29 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2014 9:59 AM Taq has replied

  
frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 297 of 316 (717562)
01-29-2014 5:39 AM


Go india.
69000 price tag for a cancer drug goes down to a few hundred when the court gives the right to produce the drug to an Indian company.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 298 of 316 (717575)
01-29-2014 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 296 by Taq
01-28-2014 6:04 PM


Re: Good is related to ability,
The rampant dogma against socialism on the political right is what is preventing us from getting universal, single payer healthcare.
Just curious, is a single-payer system literally a single payer, or does it allow for others to act as payers as well?
Like, I have some money and I know a doctor, would I be able to give him my money for his service under single payer system? Or would it have to come from the single-payer?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Taq, posted 01-28-2014 6:04 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 300 by Taq, posted 01-29-2014 3:52 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 301 by Modulous, posted 01-29-2014 3:59 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Whaitere
Junior Member (Idle past 2625 days)
Posts: 9
From: San Diego, CA
Joined: 01-13-2002


(1)
Message 299 of 316 (717586)
01-29-2014 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by onifre
01-28-2014 10:01 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
No no nothing so sinister, just another NSA agent doing his job here...
Haha naw, I'm actually attempting to help program the control panel with Percy, he's being very patient with me. I still have a lot to learn, but I hope to be able to help out in other aspects of the site in the future. I'll be lurking around the forums and posting from time to time in an effort to help familiarize myself with the wants and needs of the community. Look forward to seeing you around

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by onifre, posted 01-28-2014 10:01 AM onifre has seen this message but not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 300 of 316 (717612)
01-29-2014 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by New Cat's Eye
01-29-2014 9:59 AM


Re: Good is related to ability,
Just curious, is a single-payer system literally a single payer, or does it allow for others to act as payers as well?
It means that there is a public agency that everyone qualifies to join by being a citizen.
Like, I have some money and I know a doctor, would I be able to give him my money for his service under single payer system? Or would it have to come from the single-payer?
It is the same as now. If your insurance pays a certain amount, there is nothing stopping you from paying the doctor more, if you want to. Perhaps a better comparison would be Medicare supplemental insurance that you can buy from private carriers. You can still buy private insurance in the UK to supplement any perceived gaps in the NHS coverage, if I remember correctly.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-29-2014 9:59 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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