Summations Only

A fault is a crack that relieves stress in the earths crust. Your crack is described as relieving the stress from uplift, ergo it is a fault by definition.The fact remains that cracks that relieve the stress of uplift are observed in the north-south orientation not in an east-west orientation.The fact remains that the evidence is counter to your fantasy in this as in so many other ways.

Fascinating: how do they make the filled v-shaped channels with all the tributaries but no tunnels?Why is there no erosion of the overlying strata? Even when it is softer rock? No Faith, it is because they know that if they cannot make up some fantasy to explain it that their YEC concept is falsified.That is why you spend so much time on making up fantasies to explain the evidence (to yourself -- it doesn't fool us).

I lost that when schrubbia was re-elected.

Except for anyone with an open mind that looks at the evidence.You have two possibilities where you can consider this a valid argument:

1. God-did-it (and you don't need scientific validation) or
2. the evidence God left lies (God is a joker)

And disappeared and formed again and disappeared ... how many times Faith? Do you have a clue how many ice ages have existed?And then there is the glacial erosion of the mountains ... Yosemite here we come.And those glaciers must have moved around like tectonic plates on warp drive.

More to the point they all would have had to be living when the flood started ... the earth would have been neck-deep in organisms crawling over each other ...

Because if you are going to carve rivers there needs to be a path for them to flow while carrying sediment. Because v-shaped channels are made by slow erosion with side failures. Kind of difficult when the channel is filled. You'd have to ask Glenn Morton.* I didn't say you were lying I said you were making up fantasies so you can pretend you have an explanation. Lying would be when you know it is a false statement and you make it with the intention to deceive.You have the same problem with sediment transport with the buried rivers in the Grand Canyon -- for the flood to magically do this while buried you need to be able to carry the eroded material away, so there should be tunnels to accomplish this ... and then have some mechanism to follow behind and fill these channels with the same material that overlies the sides of the channels. Without forming a boundary with those materials over the channel.Edited by RAZD, : * spl name

Stress determines the general location of structural failure, and by observing where cracks are, what the materials are and how much the material on each side of the failure has moved one can calculate the stress that was involved. If the stress is insufficient to cause failure then the material would not crack. Cracking does not always occur when there is (insufficient) stress.There is a much larger ridge than your "mound" running north-south at the east end of the canyon ... and we see fault lines there ... crossing the canyon.There is also a much larger rise than your "mound" of the plateau at the west end of the canyon ... and we see fault lines there. ... crossing the canyon.We also see erosion along fault lines in some places, but we can still identify the fault lines when this occurs.There are no observed fault lines along the meandering path of the canyon, none. Butte Fault

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Butte Fault, Grand Canyon, Coconino County | The Butte fault is responsible for much of the present day depth of the Grand Canyon. In this aerial photo, the fault can be seen just left of center at the upturned edge of gray and red strata. During the Laramide Orogeny (70 to 40 Ma), the fault experienced about 300 m (1,000 feet) of west-side up motion (left). This placed Proterozoic Chuar Group sediments (lower left) next to Mississippian Redwall Limestone and Pennsylvanian Supai Group rocks (right). ... Note the Marble Platform in the upper right at an elevation of about 5,000 feet. These same rocks appear across the Butte Fault and off to the left of the photo are at 8,000 feet, giving the North Rim of Grand Canyon its high elevation. The muddy Colorado River is visible in the far right hand portion of the photograph in Marble Canyon.

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Notice the lack of meanders along the fault line. Notice the vertical orientation of the (gray and red) rock layers just to the right of the fault line at the bottom of the picture.So why is there no river channel here, even if the canyon is not here, there still should have been massive concurrent river type erosion similar to the canyon here yes? Grand Canyon Faults

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Exposed in the walls of the Grand Canyon, are numerous faults that document the region’s earthquake — or tectonic — history. Since faults in the Grand Canyon are not only exposed on horizontal surfaces, but also in the walls of the canyon, geologists are provided with a rare opportunity to study what faults look like thousands of feet down into the earth’s crust. Faults are seen cutting through practically every geologic layer in the canyon, from the oldest, two-billion-year-old Precambrian rocks ...

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The amount of movement measured on the faults varies from 15 feet to 16,000 feet. One of the most famous faults at the Grand Canyon is the Bright Angel Fault. Originating south of the canyon, it is oriented northeast and slices through Grand Canyon Village, down past Indian Gardens and Phantom Ranch, and northward up Bright Angel Canyon — which is a fault-oriented canyon — and terminates near the North Rim. The Bright Angel Trail descends steeply down the broken, shattered rocks along the fault line, which provides one of the few breaks in the massive cliff faces that generally prohibit descent into the canyon.

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Monoclines seen in the Grand Canyon are another expression of the region’s faults. Monoclines are folds, or bends, in the otherwise horizontal rock layers that dominate the canyon. Folds form when a fault deep underground becomes active but doesn’t actually break the surface rocks. Instead, the surface layers bend to form a fold that is draped over the displacement along the underlying fault. The most visible example is from Desert View Watchtower, where the East Kaibab monocline traverses the canyon and has folded the rock layers seen on the north side of the canyon.

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So how did those layers bend without cracking Faith? You claim that because there is a "mound" that there must be cracking ... here we have a mound and no cracking ... within the same geological formations as the Grand Canyon.Why are there no cracks in those bent layers? Whatever fantasy you make up to explain this also can be used to say that the "mound" you claim cracked to make the Grand Canyon did not in fact need to be cracked. Bright Angel Fault

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I've added arrows to a USGS map showing the relationship and intersection
of the Bright Angel Fault (red arrows) and the Colorado River (black arrows)

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In Precambrian time, over half a billion years ago, movement within the Earth’s crust in the region opened a huge gash called the Bright Angel fault. Compressional fault movement provides an invitation for the forces of erosion to initiate, crushing rock along the fault and allowing water to percolate through the layers, chemically dissolving susceptible minerals. With the onset of the Laramide Orogeny in late Mesozoic time, the fault experienced tensional forces as the Colorado Plateau was uplifted as a whole. All these processes essentially weakened the rock and contributed to the formation of a canyon. Bright Angel Canyon traces the route of the fault from the North Rim to the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and beyond, a distance of over 60 miles. ...

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Notice the straight line for this canyon that actually follows an actual fault line that actually did open up due to tectonic stress, and that the fault line extends beyond the canyon, and that it is dry ... with no sign of river channel erosion.

• We see evidence of fault lines ... without water channels ...
• We see evidence of open faults creating straight canyons ... without water channels ...
• We see evidence of "mounding" of layers ... without cracking ...
• We see faults deeper than the Grand Canyon ... without water channels ...
• We see faults lines crossing the canyon ...

... We do not see fault lines forming the path of the Colorado River anywhere along the river location.Objectively looking at the evidence, there is no reason to conclude that mounding caused cracking along the entire meandering path of the Grand Canyon and that this caused the canyon to be located where it happens to be.Edited by RAZD, : ...

Curiously it has been validated by several independent methods.The real reason you don't deal with it is because you cannot make up an explanation for the consilience of data that show consistent result from different systems, so to protect your fantasy you need to reject it.Cognitive dissonance predicts this behavior.

If we start with the flood being above the purported cracks, then this is not a problem getting water into the purported disappearing cracks. The larger problem is how this generates massive currents to carve them out when water flows most at the top and least at the bottom: drain a dammed reservoir and all the sediment that settled to the bottom is still there.Glenn Canyon is not carved by draining the purported Lake Austin ...

IIRC she once said that all the river canyons in this cross-section Were east-west cracks that all became canyons.Or something like that.

In which case they could have been in any direction, and you cannot know that they were east-west because they all washed away. Curiously this is why we know you are making stuff up, because you claim something that leaves no evidence for your claim in any way. Curiously water does not carve canyons at the bottoms of reservoirs, rather it fills them with sediments over time, and when you drain a reservoir that sediment is left behind.This is why draining a big lake would not carve Glenn Canyon. As has been pointed out, the "Grand Staircase" is composed of formations that run in many directions. Even that idealized section shows them curving aroundSo where are those results of east-west cracks again? The river channels? And why aren't those other river channels as deep as the Grand Canyon if they were caused by the same process? Yes, there is not point in discussing actual cracks in rocks when discussing cracks in rocks because if you discuss actual cracks and actual rock cracking behavior then you cannot discuss made up cracks and made up crack behavior that is different.Curious that these actual cracks penetrate below those east-west cracks that all got washed away, and yet they didn't also cause the water to penetrate and carve canyons in those locations.Curious that there is one fault that was buried by layers of sediment and then reactivated to cause those layers to bend ("mound" in faith talk) without cracking and without canyon formation. But all tectonic action occurred after the layers were laid down, so how does this buried fault come to be?Or is this another instance of your supergroup tumbling underground fantasy? They are the evidence of cracks in rocks, Faith: that is what faults ARE - places where rock has cracked.Ignoring evidence is not refutation.Edited by RAZD, : ..

So why are koala bears and the eucalyptus trees they feed on only exist in Australia? How did they get there?This is just one example of a species that consumes limited food sources that only exist in one place.Why are there no placental animals in Australia? Why are there no rabbits or dogs in Australia until after they were brought there by man and are now considered invasive and destructive species because they are so well adapted to living there?Why do species exhibit biogeographical distributions around the world? Especially species isolated on islands but not found on mainlands.Why did lamas only exist in South America before being introduced by man to other locations? They are perfectly capable of living in North America and Europe and grazing on the grasses that are native to those areas. What kept them from going there?Why are species that occupy similar ecologies different in different geographical locations?Why are wolverines and polar bears only found in northern latitudes and not found in similar southern latitudes?Why are Penguins found in southern latitudes and not in norther latitudes?Why are Puffins found in northern latitudes and not in southern latitudes?Alfred Russel Wallace - Wikipedia

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Alfred Russel Wallace OM FRS (8 January 1823 — 7 November 1913) was a British naturalist, explorer, geographer, anthropologist, and biologist. He is best known for independently conceiving the theory of evolution through natural selection; his paper on the subject was jointly published with some of Charles Darwin's writings in 1858. ... Wallace did extensive fieldwork, first in the Amazon River basin and then in the Malay Archipelago, where he identified the faunal divide now termed the Wallace Line, which separates the Indonesian archipelago into two distinct parts: a western portion in which the animals are largely of Asian origin, and an eastern portion where the fauna reflect Australasia.

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He was considered the 19th century's leading expert on the geographical distribution of animal species and is sometimes called the "father of biogeography". ...

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How did these species sort themselves on one side or the other of this divide?Again we have an instance where the evidence shows evolution of species over long time periods in a consistent intellectually consilient manner but one that is not to be expected from random dispersal of animals from a single point some 4,500 (or whatever time you chose) years ago -- a pattern that matches the fossil record buried before the flood? Are those fossils that were magically sorted not only in depth but in geographical locations some kind of mystical magnet that draws the living species to their locations even though ... Why are some species geographically localized when there are similar habitats in other places Faith? Places they inhabit in quite happily once introduced. Certainly there are some species that have spread out across the globe -- what holds the others back and how did they get where they are?

Faults - Grand Canyon National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

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Monoclines seen in the Grand Canyon are another expression of the region’s faults. Monoclines are folds, or bends, in the otherwise horizontal rock layers that dominate the canyon. Folds form when a fault deep underground becomes active but doesn’t actually break the surface rocks. Instead, the surface layers bend to form a fold that is draped over the displacement along the underlying fault. The most visible example is from Desert View Watchtower, where the East Kaibab monocline traverses the canyon and has folded the rock layers seen on the north side of the canyon.

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This monocline is (of course) responsible for the north-south "mound" uplift at the eastern end of the canyon.Here is a construction of the geological column in the area: This gives us evidence of the previous layers that overlaid the Grand Canyon area and caused the sedimentary deposits to lithify.Then there is this nonsense:Folded rock layers point to Noah’s flood | Creation Faith Facts

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... The Kaibab Plateau is said to have been pushed up 60 million years ago. It is obvious the 90-degree folding of the layers was done when they were still soft and pliable because there is no evidence whatsoever of breaking or shattering. How could the sandstone/limestone layers remain soft and pliable for 440 million years? Evolutionary geologists explain this dilemma by saying that intense heat and pressure allowed the layers to be bent so slowly that they behaved as though they were pliable. ...

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Notice that the right side picture is from somewhere else. Notice the layers in the Tapeets sandstone (left picture) ... how did those layers stay so well defined when they were bent if still wet at the time?Curiously you can test, rather than dismiss with incredulity, and the buried fault line shows their argument to be fantasy speculation.Edited by RAZD, : +Edited by RAZD, : +Edited by RAZD, : +

But it doesn't matter what you meant Faith. All that matters is how we interpret what you said, right? Or are you being disingenuous here ... The conclusion Faith is that your fantasy just doesn't work, it doesn't add up, it doesn't explain the evidence and it is self contradictory. So you agree that the intended meaning is important and that misrepresenting what a person means is a bad thing, a dishonest thing, an inappropriate thing?Edited by RAZD, : :