What convinced you of Evolution?

Buttheads don't look over what they have said, see the other person's point of view and apologize.I've seen a lot of the stuff posted by creationist sites and if you are only working with that then it is understandable that you might have the wrong idea and come on, perhaps, a bit strong.and (as best as I can manage) it's see-lo-kanthThe thing with it is a fish of the same family as fish which existed 65 Myr ago (millions of years ago) but not the same species or even genus. They have evolved.As I said it would be a big surprise if a species lasted that long (I think the average is about 5 Myr but I'm not sure). However, so what? If conditions were somehow very stable then it might stay very similar for a long time. Evolution allows for that but I think it would be considered pretty unlikely that a genome would be that stable since, for one thing, selective pressures would be unlikely to be that stable.Where does the ToE say things have to evolve a lot or quickly? Any way, as noted, it has changed a lot but is pretty clearly related to the lobe fins of megayears ago. Perhaps more clearly than that blue jays are related to tyrannosaurs but only a bit more clearly.

Search "coelacanth" using the small, underlined "search" feature clear at the top of the page.One of the biggest differences between the modern and fossil coelacanths is that the modern ones are deep-sea, cold-water critters, and the ancient ones we know of were shallow water sorts, some (most??) of the freshwater, not seawater species. Deep-ocean fish, even if they do fossilize, are pretty unlikely to be found as fossils, as there isn't much deep-sea sediment around on surface to dig in.

Jantoo1,Welcome to the forum. I hope after the bad start that things will go better from now on. I believe that everyone here appreciates a good apology. With that said, I will apologize for my alter-ego's reply to your first post here.One thing you must realize when you post to a forum such as this, is that so many of the creationism arguments are such old hat to the veteran posters here that we have a tendency to get a little frustrated at hearing them again.In reply to your question concerning threads addressing the coelacanth,here is one http://EvC Forum: Evidence of species alive today? where Quetzal gives info on several "living fossils". (edited to add the following) We have many different forums here on various aspects of the EvC debate, and each forum has many threads. I suggest finding a thread that discusses something you are interested in, or starting a new thread with your questions or comments. This thread is off-topic enough for now - The Queen------------------
AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe[This message has been edited by AdminAsgara, 12-08-2003]

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And by the way, we don't care what a person's degree is in, all we care about is a logical argument.

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Hey, I care deeply about what my degree is in. I just don't care about anybody else's.

Thank you for your kind consideration, I am grateful...{:-).. I understand your frustration with the same old thing.. But it isn`t the same old thing to me.. I thank you for the thread info and I will go there and read.. I also thank you for your advise to seek a thread I`m interested in.. I was/am interested in this thread. I am seeking knowledge and It seemed like it could have been found in this one..

Thank you.. a bit strong??? Maybe like gang busters... OOOPS!!!
I am trying to find the truth.. I am searching everywhere.. and it gets a bit overwhelming...
Thank you for the pronunciation.. I will remember that..{:-)..
Well, yes, I see your point. I guess there is no time line for evolving..
I did not hear that about that fish. I will go and seek info, re. your info. I am grateful for your sharing.. Have a blessed day,, Jan

Yes, you are quite right Jantoo1! This is something that I think we all forget around here. We can come off a thread debating an issue with a seasoned poster who knows better (or who likes to argue as much as we do ) and we see the same issues in a new thread and we tend to bite before we think.One piece of advise for living in our mad little world here, you have to have pretty thick skin so as not to take everything here at a personal level. (generally good advise for everyone)We'll debate just about everything around here whole-heartedly (just look at the 106 posts debating the sexual orientation of a gaming avatar {love ya Crash and Rei })------------------
AdminAsgara
Queen of the Universe

Truth can get all philosphical. What we look for is the most reasonable answer that we can find at any given time. Is it "truth"? I dunno about what that is.

It’s nearer to see-luh-kanth, in fact, cos the middle letter’s an a: coelacanth (though a number of reutable websites get it wrong).Spelling mnemonics abound, but try co-el-a- (like a weird koala, or to rhyme with Ms DeVille in 101 Dalmatians!) -canth.

Hi jantoo:Our resident Queen of the Universe linked to a pretty good discussion (if I do say so myself - since I wrote it ) of living fossils, which included info on the coelocanth. If you'd like to either resurrect that thread and ask questions about it, or start a new one on the subject, I and others here would be delighted to continue it. Relictual (basically, "left-over") species are a special interest of mine. Here's the link again to the relevant post.

Hi, I was actually quoting you when i said 'I HAVE MY DEGREE', so you are contradicting yourself. Either you have a degree or you have two degrees. I never mentioned if I have a degree(s) or not. I actually find it very difficult to believe that you have a degree(s) but I suppose anything is possible.As for being an ordained minister, that explains a lot.Brian.[This message has been edited by Brian, 12-09-2003]

Here we go again with this **degree** situation.. What is your problem??? Why do you feel the need for me, to justify this?? Do you only talk to degreed learned people?? Do I need to scan and put them on here??? Along with my Ministers certificate.. Of which I also had to go to school to get... And I certainly will not apologize for being a minister.. I actually do minister ( as a verb) I feed the homeless, I cloth nekkid folks, I foster abused children, I visit dying people in hospital, I visit inmates in prisons... I am not asking you for any of your credentials.. Why is it soooo important to you???? To tell me I must be stupid...I am well over 50 years old.. Had plenty of schooling... So what is your point please????????? And by the way WhAT DO YOU DO FOR YOUR COMMUNITY???? Now I HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF THIS.. I will not justify myself anymore. I will leave this forum.. You have run me off. You should be oh so proud of yourself...

jantool,Please don't take it the wrong way, but the reason that people are doubting what you're saying is that your posts don't reflect someone who either is a minister, has a degree, or is over 50 years old. In fact, your post is the exact style that we get from a number of people in their early teens who post here. Please don't take it as an insult; this is just to explain why people are doubting you.As some tips for later on: the older people get, the less readily they turn a debate into a shouting match (notice the abundant usage of capital letters and punctuation in your posts, but not in anyone else's). They also tend to boast less, and are less prone to run off in the case of a disagreement.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

OMG!! You have totally missed the point of my post.Let us take this really slow so you can understand what I was saying:In post number 92 you replied to Asgara and amid your tirade was this statement: ‘WHY NOT DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU ACT LIKE YOU`RE, ALL THAT AND THEN SOME.. I HAVE MY DEGREE, WHAT ABOUT YOU????’ Now it was you who mentioned a degree not me, you brought up the point, you said ‘I have my degree’I then quoted this in post number 104 when I placed your words inside a shaded quote box like this: This is a quote from the statement that you made in post 92 ‘WHY NOT DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH BEFORE YOU ACT LIKE YOU`RE, ALL THAT AND THEN SOME.. I HAVE MY DEGREE , WHAT ABOUT YOU????It was your degree that I mentioned, not anyone else’s, I was interested in what your degree is in, what is wrong with that?Then in post number 111 you wrote, and the entire contents of this shaded box are all your words. Everything in that box is yours, you are freaking arguing with yourself for goodness sake! YOU said I HAVE MY DEGREE I never mentioned whether I have a degree or not. You then counter your OWN words ‘ I HAVE MY DEGREE with the statement ‘ I also have a couple of degrees ’ !No wonder I am surprised, you went from having A degree to having a couple of degrees in a blinking of an eye! You are arguing with your own words! I couldn’t care less if you have a degree, I just happen to be surprised that you claim to be educated to degree level.Now everything in the following shaded boxes are your words, I am quoting you, everything in normal text is mine. I don’t, as I said I was quoting your words back to you and you have obviously been confused as to what I was saying. No I talk to anyone, even ordained ministers. I couldn’t care less about your ‘degrees’, you are the one hung up on degrees, you brought it up remember. Oh I believe you are a minister, it actually explains a lot. Why not? Do you tell them about Jesus? Do you tell them about Jesus? Do you tell them about Jesus? Do you tell them about Jesus? Do you tell them about Jesus? As pointed out, you are arguing with yourself here, I was quoting you and you misunderstood. I don’t need to say anything about that, you are doing well enough on your own. So is Buz! Well your comprehension could do with a little topping up. The point is you are arguing with yourself! None of your business, I don’t have to shout it from the rooftops. Ah the old creationist tactic, when stumped cry foul and run off, this is what kids do Jan, grow up a little. You were trying to justify yourself to yourself! No not proud, confused as to how you make an arse of yourself and I get the blame for it that’s all.Now don’t be silly, hang around and realise that you have mistaken the format of my first post and have actually taken YOUR words as being spoken by me.Brian.

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Let me just start off by saying that evolution has about the same amount of evidence as any other religion does (maybe even less)...

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The Theory of Evolution is a scientific theory, just like any other.Do you consider the Germ Theory of Disease to be religious in nature?

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So, what convinced you of evolution over any other religion?

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Like I said, it's not a religion.However, I was convinced that the Theory of Evolution was an accurate explanation of the evidence because it's predictions have been borne out, and it unifies and explains evidence and phenomena across many scientific disciplines. In particular, the fact that the very recent science of Genetics, which Darwin and 100 years more study of evolution did not have the advantage of knowing anything about, remains amazingly consistent with evolutionary theory.In short, it is the best explanation we have come up with.

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Were you just brought up with the theory of evolution?

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Not especially. I don't think my parents ever mentioned anything remotely about evolution once.

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Does it just make sense to you?

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Indeed.

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Were you forced into it because you refused to believe in a deity?

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I never had a time that Evolution didn't make sense to me, and luckily I was raised in a religion that did not force me to choose to ignore evidence.I am no longer a believer, but my rejecting religion and belief had nothing to do with Evolution.It's hardly and either/or question.

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Or are you just one of those, "Scientists thought of it...It must be true" kind of people? Please post your response, because I am honestly quite curious.

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Well, I probably did sort of think this for a while, before I attended University and began to study Biology and science.Then I was actually exposed to evidence in real detail.

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Now, I, by no means am trying to come off as mean or disrespectful here, I am just honestly curious in what would convince someone that a theory with an extremely insignificant amount of evidence could be true.

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Insignificant?What evidence do you think is lacking?------------------
"Evolution is a 'theory', just like gravity. If you don't like it, go jump off a bridge."