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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 2356 of 5179 (719831)
02-18-2014 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2354 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 1:55 PM


Prediction
Is that you admitting that their ultimate goal is not saving kids lives in schools?
Prediction: within 2 years a gun in a school ostensibly to prevent or reduce school shootings ... will be used in a school shooting or accidental death.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2354 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 1:55 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 3:12 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 2367 by Omnivorous, posted 02-18-2014 5:20 PM RAZD has replied
 Message 2371 by 1.61803, posted 02-18-2014 5:49 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 2357 of 5179 (719833)
02-18-2014 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2356 by RAZD
02-18-2014 2:59 PM


Re: Prediction
I'm not sure why you would smile at that...
In those two years, apparently, more kids will die in bicycle accidents at school. If your ultimate goal was saving kids lives at schools, then your efforts would be better focused on bicycle safety.
If you say that you're ultimate goal is saving kids lives at schools, and then you focus on things that will save less lives, then you're either stupid or lying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2356 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 2:59 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2363 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2014 4:43 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2368 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 5:22 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2358 of 5179 (719834)
02-18-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 1:57 PM


Re: why federal laws and what they could say
... so you would be okay with ammo\powder having micro-confetti to track sources and buyers,
I'm okay with it existing, but I wouldn't buy it or shoot it.
Why?
This is a simple way to track bullets used in crimes regardless of gun ownership or type of gun.
What harm does it pose to you for recreational use or for self defense use?
TASER shoots ID confetti leading to arrests in violin robbery
quote:
SCOTTSDALE, AZ (CBS5) -
Crime scene investigators spend a lot of time searching for clues, including shell casings, fingerprints and DNA.
It is often pain staking and time consuming work.
A group of suspected thieves in Wisconsin might as well have left their drivers licenses at the scene of the crime, because identifying information fired from a TASER led police right to their door.
A Stradivarius violin estimated to be worth five million dollars was stolen in a violent and planned out assault on the streets of Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
The violin player was shocked by a TASER while walking to his car following a concert and robbed of his precious instrument.
The TASER C2 puts out enough electricity to temporarily paralyze whomever is at the receiving end of it.
Each one of the TASER cartridges contains twenty-six small confetti like tags called AFIDs which are packed into the firing mechanism. When engaged, the AFIDs fly out of the TASER and scatter around the area where the device was utilized.
AFIDs stands for Anti Felon Identification System. The TASER International company has utilized them in their products since the beginning.
"What it is doing is preventing people from doing crimes," says TASER Vice President Steve Tuttle.
"It tells the owner, if you do, you're putting twenty to thirty of these out there," Tuttle says while holding up a business card.
Those 'business cards' were right there at the scene of the crime in Milwaukee just waiting for police to pick them up. It took a few days, but cops tracked down three people who have been arrested in connection with the theft.
"(TASER was) immediately contacted by Milwaukee Police and the FBI and we were given a number to trace," says Tuttle. "There's a ninety-eight percent chance that when you deploy this, good luck, because we're going to catch you."
Simple, no-brainer, everyone benefits.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 1:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2359 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 3:26 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 2359 of 5179 (719835)
02-18-2014 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2358 by RAZD
02-18-2014 3:18 PM


Re: why federal laws and what they could say
Why?
In light of the heinous actions of the NSA, I'm not going to trust the Feds with something that purposefully provides them with more information about my guns, or bullets.
They are simply untrustworthy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2358 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 3:18 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2360 of 5179 (719839)
02-18-2014 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2351 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 12:21 PM


Re: Misleading headline
The whole article is data. Not sure what you think data is.
Do you mean the actual pieces of data from the study?
No I can not give you that, but the article is data and provides data.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2351 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 12:21 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2362 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 4:42 PM Theodoric has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2361 of 5179 (719840)
02-18-2014 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 1:57 PM


Re: why federal laws and what they could say
Come at me bro.
WTF?
What's with the juvenile posturing?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2355 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 1:57 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 2362 of 5179 (719842)
02-18-2014 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 2360 by Theodoric
02-18-2014 4:36 PM


Re: Misleading headline
Now you're just being disingenuous. You, the unsupported assertion police, are now accepting unsupported assertions as "data".
I guess its all good as long as you like what you hear. And you have the gall to berate us for acting like creationists. lulz
Welcome back to being ignored, troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2360 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2014 4:36 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2364 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2014 4:46 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2363 of 5179 (719843)
02-18-2014 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 3:12 PM


Re: Prediction
In those two years, apparently, more kids will die in bicycle accidents at school.
Strawman? or did you not read or not comprehend any of it?
The article did not talk about bicycle accidents at school did it?
If you say that you're ultimate goal is saving kids lives, and then you focus on things that will save less lives, then you're either stupid or lying.
But then again you never said you had a goal of saving kids lives did you?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 3:12 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 2364 of 5179 (719844)
02-18-2014 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 2362 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 4:42 PM


Re: Misleading headline
The study links the abandonment of the background check to an additional 60 or so murders occurring per year in Missouri between 2008 and 2012.
"Coincident exactly with the policy change, there was an immediate upward trajectory to the homicide rates in Missouri," said Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research.
"That upward trajectory did not happen with homicides that did not involve guns; it did not occur to any neighbouring state; the national trend was doing the opposite — it was trending downward; and it was not specific to one or two localities — it was, for the most part, state-wide," he told BBC News.
That is data. Maybe data you do not like but it is data.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2362 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 4:42 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 2365 of 5179 (719846)
02-18-2014 5:07 PM


Terminology
The terms evidence, data and raw data can be ambiguous. Theodoric is citing the results of a study and calling them evidence, while it seems that Catholic Scientist wants to see raw data but is also calling that evidence.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2366 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 5:10 PM Percy has replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 2366 of 5179 (719847)
02-18-2014 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 2365 by Percy
02-18-2014 5:07 PM


Re: Terminology
Theo is citing a news report on a study that hasn't been released yet.
I don't care who you are, that don't pass as "data".
But yes, of course we would want to look at the raw data.
Since when did we start accepting unsupported assertions?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2365 by Percy, posted 02-18-2014 5:07 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2369 by Theodoric, posted 02-18-2014 5:25 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2373 by Percy, posted 02-18-2014 6:25 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3985
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.2


Message 2367 of 5179 (719849)
02-18-2014 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 2356 by RAZD
02-18-2014 2:59 PM


Re: Prediction
RAZD writes:
Prediction: within 2 years a gun in a school ostensibly to prevent or reduce school shootings ... will be used in a school shooting or accidental death.
Sooner.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2356 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 2:59 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2374 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 7:00 PM Omnivorous has seen this message but not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1427 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2368 of 5179 (719850)
02-18-2014 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 3:12 PM


Re: Prediction
I'm not sure why you would smile at that...
More of a grimace, but certainly the irony would have a certain level of black humor. The law of unintended consequences will always produce some results counter to the intentions.
In those two years, apparently, more kids will die in bicycle accidents at school. If your ultimate goal was saving kids lives at schools, then your efforts would be better focused on bicycle safety.
Curiously I can be focused on bicycle safety at the same time -- not just for kids but for all cyclists, which is increasing as more people move away from fossil fuels.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2357 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 3:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2370 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 5:26 PM RAZD has replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9142
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 2369 of 5179 (719851)
02-18-2014 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2366 by New Cat's Eye
02-18-2014 5:10 PM


Re: Terminology
Since when did we start accepting unsupported assertions?
It isn't unsupported. The author of the study is presenting the results of his study.
Are you claiming that Prof Daniel Webster, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research is misrepresenting the raw data? Why would he put his reputation at risk and lie?
I cannot believe you are going this far out on a limb to call this unsupported assertions when this is going to published in the next issue of the Journal of Urban Health.
I will go along with your sudden need that everything has to be published in order to be data. Lets hold off until this is published and then you can tell me how it is unsupported and is meaningless.
You can do a web search on this study and there is a lot of data on it already.
This again goes to my argument that rightwingers are no different than creos. You can do a web search on this study and there is a lot of data on it already. Of course you will not, and you will continue to deny the results and scream. No data, no data.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2366 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-18-2014 5:10 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 2370 of 5179 (719852)
02-18-2014 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 2368 by RAZD
02-18-2014 5:22 PM


Re: Prediction
Curiously I can be focused on bicycle safety at the same time
But we're talking about those Moms and Mayors...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2368 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 5:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2376 by RAZD, posted 02-18-2014 7:49 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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