Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The C.C.O.I. (Christian Cult Of Ignorance) and Willful Ignorance
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 317 of 675 (719814)
02-18-2014 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 315 by jar
02-12-2014 10:36 AM


Re: The Franchise
To me, church is not a classroom where folks question what they believe--its a place where folks share their belief. Besides...I am unsure at this point what it is exactly that I believe...apart from my unwavering belief that GOD understands...and cares.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by jar, posted 02-12-2014 10:36 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by jar, posted 02-18-2014 12:39 PM Phat has replied
 Message 319 by ringo, posted 02-19-2014 11:13 AM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 318 of 675 (719820)
02-18-2014 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 317 by Phat
02-18-2014 12:20 PM


Re: The Franchise
Ah yes. The term for that is "Confirmation Bias".
That is a big part of the problem.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 02-18-2014 12:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:15 AM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 319 of 675 (719926)
02-19-2014 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Phat
02-18-2014 12:20 PM


Re: The Franchise
Phat writes:
To me, church is not a classroom where folks question what they believe--its a place where folks share their belief. Besides...I am unsure at this point what it is exactly that I believe...
How can you share it if you don't know what it is?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 317 by Phat, posted 02-18-2014 12:20 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:25 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 320 of 675 (719927)
02-19-2014 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by jar
02-18-2014 12:39 PM


Re: The Franchise
Phat writes:
To me, church is not a classroom where folks question what they believe--its a place where folks share their belief. Besides...I am unsure at this point what it is exactly that I believe...apart from my unwavering belief that GOD understands...and cares.
To which jar replies:
Ah yes. The term for that is "Confirmation Bias".
That is a big part of the problem.
I think that I understand your position. Joe Woods always challenged you to think, but what I'm referring to is the worship service...
We both know that the United States suffers from confirmation bias.
jar,in another thread writes:
There are some real problems in the US, a lousy health care system, almost non-existent mental health system, an increasing gap between poor and rich, dynamic changes in what jobs are available and a for shit education system, almost non-existent news distribution and education, a large percentage of the population that are totally out of touch with reality and a large percentage of the population that think only in bumper sticker sized bites.
And I realize that U.S. charismatic/fundamentalist Club Christian have some real problems with confirmation bias. My point is that a worship service should be a place where people agree--if but a moment---whom it is they are worshiping and singing praises to.
After all, you refer to yourself as a cradle creedal christian....surely you dont question the Nicene Creed, do you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by jar, posted 02-18-2014 12:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by jar, posted 02-19-2014 11:54 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 321 of 675 (719934)
02-19-2014 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 319 by ringo
02-19-2014 11:13 AM


Believe It or Not
ringo writes:
How can you share it (my belief) if you don't know what it is?
  • I believe in One God. Creator of all seen and unseen. Although humans may have made up tales of gods and goblins, this God pre-existed all human wisdom and defined/created us long before we even had the capability to imagine Him.
  • I believe that Jesus once existed and now exists eternally. As far as His death bringing about atonement for humanity, I'm not sure. I DO believe that Jesus is our link to communication with GOD. As far as being the ONLY way? Im not sure...but its the way I have chosen to believe in.
  • The church is more than one denomination, but as to it being more than Christianity...i'm undecided. Inclusiveness seems like a feel-good cop-out to me.
  • I believe that original sin was an invention of humanity--not God---but the evidence shows that humans behave badly rather predictably. Owning up and taking responsibility are wonderful sound bites but are not popular. People need to confess their shortcomings to God. If they dont believe, I suppose they could hire a psycho-therapist but it would end up costing more.
    Mr. Ringo---as an agnostic, do you still leave a line of communication open should God ever decide to call you?

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 319 by ringo, posted 02-19-2014 11:13 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 322 by ringo, posted 02-19-2014 11:28 AM Phat has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 322 of 675 (719936)
    02-19-2014 11:28 AM
    Reply to: Message 321 by Phat
    02-19-2014 11:25 AM


    Re: Believe It or Not
    Ringo writes:
    Mr. Ringo---as an agnostic, do you still leave a line of communication open should God ever decide to call you?
    Isn't God capable of ringing the phone even when it's off the hook?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 321 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:25 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 323 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:43 AM ringo has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 323 of 675 (719940)
    02-19-2014 11:43 AM
    Reply to: Message 322 by ringo
    02-19-2014 11:28 AM


    Re: Believe It or Not
    Ringo writes:
    Isn't God capable of ringing the phone even when it's off the hook?
    Of course. God could force everyone to acknowledge His presence but it is said that the Spirit is a perfect gentleman.
    Of course I suppose that to a logical mind, He could send a lifeboat, a helicopter and a paramedic should you ever need them.
    Perhaps the bigger question is whether or not you would recognize the ringtone when He did call you.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 322 by ringo, posted 02-19-2014 11:28 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 325 by ringo, posted 02-20-2014 10:55 AM Phat has replied
     Message 337 by ramoss, posted 06-16-2014 7:06 PM Phat has replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 394 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 324 of 675 (719944)
    02-19-2014 11:54 AM
    Reply to: Message 320 by Phat
    02-19-2014 11:15 AM


    Re: The Franchise
    Of course I question the Nicene Creed.
    Real worship is what you do, not what you say.

    Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 320 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:15 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 327 by Phat, posted 02-24-2014 10:18 PM jar has not replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 325 of 675 (720101)
    02-20-2014 10:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 323 by Phat
    02-19-2014 11:43 AM


    Re: Believe It or Not
    ringo writes:
    Of course. God could force everyone to acknowledge His presence but it is said that the Spirit is a perfect gentleman.
    "It is said" by humans - who are no more likely to be right than I am.
    Phat writes:
    Perhaps the bigger question is whether or not you would recognize the ringtone when He did call you.
    You can ask yourself that same question: Is the phone ringing or is it all in your head?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 323 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:43 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 326 by Phat, posted 02-20-2014 11:06 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 326 of 675 (720107)
    02-20-2014 11:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 325 by ringo
    02-20-2014 10:55 AM


    Re: Believe It or Not
    Touche

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 325 by ringo, posted 02-20-2014 10:55 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 327 of 675 (720529)
    02-24-2014 10:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 324 by jar
    02-19-2014 11:54 AM


    Re: The Franchise
    jar writes:
    Of course I question the Nicene Creed.
    What I man is what a person chooses to affirm. Once I affirm that I believe in a Creed, for example, I would be silly to be forever doubting what I had affirmed. Of course we test on a daily basis---"How Do You Know It's God" is a great example...but I don't forever question whether God exists or if Jesus is alive today. These beliefs have been settled. Now....as you have brought up before, if I am honest I know that I could be wrong. I also know that I wont know for sure until at least after I die...barring any miracles.
    It would be pretty silly though for me to one day affirm that I believe in the Creator of all seen and unseen and then the next day question that belief. Of course I suppose if I had terminal cancer and was dying and broke I would likely question it then.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 324 by jar, posted 02-19-2014 11:54 AM jar has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 328 of 675 (729600)
    06-15-2014 10:38 AM
    Reply to: Message 2 by jar
    05-29-2007 2:18 PM


    From another closed topic
    Identifying false religions
    jar writes:
    If there really is a GOD, the creator of all that is, seen and unseen, then that GOD is further from a human than a human is from slime mold. A human has about as much a likelihood of knowing or understanding that GOD as slime mold has of knowing or understanding a human.
    Except the possibility that that Being may allow for us to understand it. We as humans do not have the power to allow slime mold to understand us...theoretically. The fact that GOD could provide a method or mediation for us to understand Him...if but a little...is quite possible.
    jar,talking to Straggler writes:
    The fact that we are unable to understand or even describe something does not imply that that entity does not exist.
    Now if I laid claim that I could describe, understand, know or actually commune with GOD you might have something.
    Are you suggesting that the closer we are to claiming to understand GOD, the less it makes GOD out to be? I don't deny that GOD is far beyond our capacity to ever fully understand. I am arguing the idea that we may be able to get a glimpse of how GOD is because GOD allowed the communion to take place. Not because of any understanding we ourselves ever arrived at.
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 2 by jar, posted 05-29-2007 2:18 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 329 by ringo, posted 06-15-2014 3:34 PM Phat has replied
     Message 332 by jar, posted 06-15-2014 9:59 PM Phat has replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 329 of 675 (729613)
    06-15-2014 3:34 PM
    Reply to: Message 328 by Phat
    06-15-2014 10:38 AM


    Re: From another closed topic
    Phat writes:
    Are you suggesting that the closer we are to claiming to understand GOD, the less it makes GOD out to be?
    I would suggest that people who claim to understand God often seem to understand less than the av-er-age bear.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 328 by Phat, posted 06-15-2014 10:38 AM Phat has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 330 by Phat, posted 06-15-2014 4:06 PM ringo has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18262
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.1


    Message 330 of 675 (729615)
    06-15-2014 4:06 PM
    Reply to: Message 329 by ringo
    06-15-2014 3:34 PM


    Re: From another closed topic
    so in other words, those who claim to be wise are but fools...while fools who admit they are fools are given wisdom?

    When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 329 by ringo, posted 06-15-2014 3:34 PM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 331 by ringo, posted 06-15-2014 4:21 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    ringo
    Member (Idle past 412 days)
    Posts: 20940
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005


    Message 331 of 675 (729616)
    06-15-2014 4:21 PM
    Reply to: Message 330 by Phat
    06-15-2014 4:06 PM


    Re: From another closed topic
    quote:
    Romans 1:22-23 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
    Claiming to understand God or to commune with God is pretty much like idolatry.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 330 by Phat, posted 06-15-2014 4:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.2
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024