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Author Topic:   Y-H-W-H is God; besides him there is nothing.
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 47 (720648)
02-25-2014 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by arachnophilia
02-25-2014 10:09 PM


Re: translation problems?
make sense?
No. How about a bone for the rest of us to gnaw on?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by arachnophilia, posted 02-25-2014 10:09 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Coyote, posted 02-25-2014 11:09 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 16 by arachnophilia, posted 02-26-2014 12:43 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 28 of 47 (720710)
02-26-2014 8:28 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by vimesey
02-26-2014 10:22 AM


Re: Solid Walls
Isn't the mistake he's making, trying to extrapolate quantum behaviour into the day to day, classical, macro world ?
Perhaps.
The point of the Schrodinger Cat thought experiment is that quantum physics has real world implications and not that those implications are simply a scaled up version of microscopic behavior. Cats are not just big electrons or photons with hair on them and electrons don't purr when they are petted.
I think Eliyahu's mistake is more egregious. He finds his misreading of physics to his liking because it can be forced with a large hammer to sound like something he can misread from the Bible.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by vimesey, posted 02-26-2014 10:22 AM vimesey has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 47 (720731)
02-27-2014 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by vimesey
02-26-2014 10:22 AM


Re: Solid Walls
And just to avoid arguments that the whole table is in some fashion one whole, coherent object, we can prop a plank of wood that we can see, on a chair we can't see - does the plank fall down when the unseen chair goes ?)
Seeing the propped up plank is the same thing as seeing the chair. In fact, seeing that the house does not collapse is the same thing as seeing the wall. None of these work-arounds would succeed in a real experiment testing quantum behavior. In a way this thread is paralleling the Einstein-Bohr debates in which Einstein tried to come up with thought experiments showing why quantum physics was wrong, and Bohr was successfully able to counter each of Einstein's attacks.
Of course with this made up nonsense Eliyahu proposes, I suppose I cannot actually say what works and what does not. We're not Einstein, but Eliyahu is a Bore.
Edited by NoNukes, : Substitute chair for wall in the first thught experiment.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by vimesey, posted 02-26-2014 10:22 AM vimesey has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 47 (720872)
02-28-2014 3:59 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by Eliyahu
02-28-2014 2:43 AM


Atoms are made of protons, electrons, and neutrons. They are in turn made of quarks.
Electrons are leptons which are not known by scientists to be made up of anything smaller. Do you know something different? Or did you just make up some more physics.
The fundamental building blocks of matter, the foundation of the universe, is wisdom.
Even assuming your Biblical argument is totally correct, your conclusion does not follow from it. God made matter out of whatever he chose to make it.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Eliyahu, posted 02-28-2014 2:43 AM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Eliyahu, posted 02-28-2014 4:06 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 45 of 47 (720955)
03-01-2014 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Eliyahu
02-28-2014 4:06 AM


Re: Wisdom the building block
God choose to make it out of wisdom.
Once again I notice that you failed to address the errors in science that I pointed out. You also failed to acknowledge that your entire previous post was a non secquitor
But this post is a better response than many that you've made because it does provide an alternate argument. Let's take a look at it.
We must assume behind this force the existence of a conscious and intelligent mind. This mind is the matrix of all matter
Note that Plank does not make a scientific argument. He says he must assume intelligence and God. But yes, Plank, probably best classified as a deist does believe that matter originates in the mind of God. This is in direct support of your position as long as we consider Plank an authority on these matters.
So why then should we consider Plank and authority on such things? We have long since rejected Planck's solar system model of the atom, so why then should we accept his view of its origin. Planck himself had no real grasp on quantum mechanics despite having help develop the idea that E&M radiation interacted with matter in quanta.
I find your argument lacking rigor and according lacking in persuasive power. Got a better one?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Eliyahu, posted 02-28-2014 4:06 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 47 (720956)
03-01-2014 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
02-28-2014 11:06 AM


Planck was talking about man's mind, wasn't he? Not God's mind
I don't think so. I think Eliyahu has interpreted Planck's words reasonably accurately. What you must decide then is Planck's basis for making his statement and whether you can accept Planck as authority on such matters.
quote:
I believe that a scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy.
Richard P. Feynman

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 02-28-2014 11:06 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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