Summations Only

OK. I'd like to make one last point, and I'm very sure how you all will answer but I'll make it anyway.When a nation officially repudiates God and His laws, especially America whose original settlers dedicated the land to God, the consequences are sure to be pretty devastating. Shooting down a law that might have protected some shred of our Christian heritage (and again since I haven't read the proposed law I'm only guessing) may not be the last straw, but the trend is clear so there will eventually be a last straw. I believe the nation is under God's judgment already, and even such an attitude as the one expressed here is an expression of that judgment but we aren't yet experiencing the worst.What did God tell Israel would be the consequences of their disobedience? Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 9. Things like famine, destruction of their food supply, destruction of the economy, failure of their wars, invasion by foreign armies. In other words, they would lose God's protection. I think you ought to know this is what scripture tells us is on the horizon for a nation that rejects God. Obviously your not believing in it doesn't change it if it is true.ABE: What happens to nations is of course on a different level from what happens to individuals. Both are something to think about.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Sigh...http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/51leg/2r/bills/sb1062p.pdfEdited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

America has not repudiated God. It has merely allowed some people of the same sex to be married. If what you call "our Christian heritage" is at such great risk, then maybe it is dead already. Or maybe it never existed.The first amendment establishment clause was there from shortly after the birth of the nation.

Be more specific. Well I'm sure after a few plagues of frogs and rains of blood we'll repent and turn back to Asdzą́ą́ Ndleeh or whoever you had in mind. Until then, so long as God apparently doesn't care whether Arizonans can get their bigot on, nor do I.

People like you have been saying that kind of bollocks for thousands of years. It doesn't seem to matter much to you that you've all been wrong.But more importantly, wtf happened to Jesus? This guy is the best thing you fanatical Christians have, yet you completely ignore his teachings, preferring the reprehensible tribal garbage of the OT.What happened to love thy neighbour?

Also interesting is that, according to Christian teachings, those OT laws don't even apply anymore. According to Galatians, following the Law is the Way of the Flesh from which we gain the Fruits of the Flesh, which are all very mean and nasty. According to Galatians, the Law is a prison of the flesh from which Christ freed us so that we could gain the Fruits of the Spirit.Curious on how obsessed conservative "Christians" are with imposing on society that from which Christ was supposed to have freed us, thus opposing Christ.And of course that ignores the even greater problem of "which law"? They insist that we must follow all of the Law, which would include working on the Sabbath, mixing meat and dairy, mixing different types of fabric, and all that messy business about mensuration, all of which American society violates flagrantly. And how do we stand on the matter of the abolition of slavery and interracial marriage? Women's equality? And so on.Obviously, conservative Christians do not practice what they preach, which of course is called "hypocrisy" and was very much and vehemently denounced by Jesus in the Gospels. Instead, they practice "Cafeteria Christianity" where they pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to follow and which parts they wish to ignore. Nor is that hypocrisy lost of the rest of society, which is yet another reason why those "true Christians" are shunned.

Bullshit! The original settlers were the native Americans who predate your "christian" settlers by way more than 10,000 years, maybe even 30,000 years.Your mythical god never said anything about America. He was talking to a bunch of bronze age goat herders.

It's not important to know the specifics of the law. This discussion is hypothetical and nobody bothered to correct anything I've said in relation to the law until now so there's no point that I can see in reading your link.

That's repudiating God, Who ordained marriage as between a man and a woman. That could be true, or close to it. Revisionist history has perhaps convinced many that it never existed, but if you go back to the Puritans and Pilgrims, Bradford and Winthrop's writings for instance, and the later generation of Jonathan Edwards, and then read Toqueville you could get a very different impression. Yes, and major players in the Constitutional foundation of the nation were not Christians, and in fact traitors to the Christian cause, as some Christian leaders of the day recognized and protested. They protested for instance the fact that God was left out of the Constitution. Serious Christians were nevertheless a huge majority, which is the only reason the nation kept its Christian character in spite of the traitorous "founders" until quite recently.

You don't have much of a sense of history then. Jesus IS Jehovah. Jesus appeared many times as reported in the OT. Jesus is the Messiah prophesied throughout the OT.Nations are still under God's Law, as are all people who do not believe in Jesus . Nations cannot be saved by Jesus, but Christians could save a nation by serving it and praying for it.Loving thy neighbor includes warning people against violating God's Law, which brings God's wrath on them. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Dreadful dreadful misunderstanding. Jesus did not come to save societies, He died to save individuals who believe on Him. Societies or nations continue as always under the Law of God. If they are ruled by God's law they can expect God's protection, those who violate it are eventually destroyed.Individuals, on the other hand, who are not believers in Christ, continue under God's wrath on them for their sins. Such confusion. Some of the laws were clearly only for the nation of Israel. Slavery was tolerated and humanized, not condoned, which is why Christians opposed it a couple of millennia later; and the prohibition of interracial marriage had nothing to do with race but with God's intention to keep His own people separate from other peoples. Outsiders were always welcome to convert and join the clan, however. Rahab the Egyptian did so and married into the clan, so did Ruth the Moabitess, just for a couple of examples.As the New Testament says, God's Law is holy and perfect and every tiny Hebrew jot of it will be fulfilled. If you aren't in Jesus, who died to save us from the condemnation of the Law, you are still under that Law, as are all nations, and God's windmills grind exceeding fine. No doubt there are many false Christians, but you obviously don't know what you are talking about due to your own confused understanding of what the Bible teaches.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Marriage is a cultural thing, not a religious thing.

So you all hope. But cultures are either in line with God's ordinations or against them, either enforce His marriage laws or don't. Most throughout history have enforced them fairly consistently. Some haven't. Ancient Rome isn't with us any more, right? Greece isn't exactly a mover and shaker in the world, right? And America and Europe have been violating God's law of marriage in many ways for at least half a century now, and since we were founded on Christianity God expects more of us, so will levy a worse judgment on us. God is patient and longsuffering, but He doesn't put up with such violations forever.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

That is decidedly not true. I've offered corrections and so have others.But not reading, not bothering to learn is your standard approach in most discussions here. Everything requiring ordinary effort is too hard, too much trouble, and beneath you. At least you are honest about your attitude. I don't understand why you are so proud of it though. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

I've been keeping out of this conversation up 'til now Faith, but I'm afraid you've tripped over your ignorance of Christianity again.Israel was punished for breaking their Covenant with God. By Christian doctrine, Christians are under the New Covenant established by Jesus. There is no reason to think that God would offer or accept any additional Covenant with any Nation.If the early European settlers did attempt to establish such a Covenant, it would apply at most to their Colony. It certainly would not apply to the government of the U.S.A, which was established as a secular state.So, the parallel with Israel simply doesn't apply. There is no Covenant with the U.S. government or the people of the U.S.A as a whole.So, I'm afraid that your terrorist threats are as unbiblical as they are empty.