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Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Arizona: Showing America how to avoid thinking since 1912 | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.6 |
Sure Faith, hate and lies are good. In your world.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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It would be nice if you'd read my posts about these things. It would be nice if you would understand that the US is not a theocracy.
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Taq Member Posts: 10085 Joined: Member Rating: 5.6
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Those things were not the original intent of the Constitution, as many of our early court cases should inform you. But in general I agree that the Constitutional generation were traitors to the Christian heritage of this country. I would still like you to explain why people in a free country should have to follow the edicts of a religion that they don't belong to.
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Tempe 12ft Chicken Member (Idle past 366 days) Posts: 438 From: Tempe, Az. Joined:
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Faith writes: Yes, Tempe, being in a land with rich resources is God's blessing too. Keep in mind that it would be possible to live among such riches without knowing how to exploit them. Knowledge is also God's gift. There is no such thing as luck. Again, you are just shoehorning your God into this reasoning, there is absolutely no reason for him to be involved. Plus, it wasn't completely unused or unclaimed resources, these were stolen from the native people of North America. So, even though God claims, "Thou shalt not steal", the people that were being so blessed gained it through armed takeover of the individuals who were already here. Science has taught us how to exploit these many resources, not God, so this is just another instance of you cramming God into an explanation which does not warrant him. I will agree that there really is no such thing as luck when it comes to America's gains in terms of resources. There was Skill (ability to decimate the local population, claiming what was originally theirs for the colonists/America), Knowledge (gained from a strict study of the natural world and the uses of resources available), and Greed (desire for all natural resources to be under control of America and not the savages that already owned the area). Europe was a land of rich resources when it was first found as well, but we humans, especially western cultures have a tendency to reduce the available resources in an area once we arrive there. Calling any of this God's blessing is a joke, especially since your God first chose to bless the Native American people with these gifts of abundant resources, which were then stolen from them breaking one of the commandments. Yet, even breaking one of the main "Laws" of Christianity brought blessings to those of European descent? How does this make sense at all? Basically, Occam's Razor says there is no need to add God into an already well reasoned solution to the abundance of raw materials in North America, the ability to use these resources, or the means for taking them from the rightful owners. That can be explained simply by nature and the native people's respect for it (explains abundance), science (explains knowledge and how the means were created to decimate an indigenious population). Your God is unnecessary to this explanation....it seems all he did was say a blessing in your mind while humanity did all the legwork. What a terrible blessing when we still have to do every single step to actually get the resources. I, for one, will ignore this unneeded blessing from on high. Back on the main topic, which is Arizona, I am glad you at least admit that you are for any type of discrimination, as long as it's religiously motivated. I'm not surprised by it because of your sick desire for a Christian theocracy in America, but I'm glad you can at least admit that you are for bigotry based on belief. Most of your fellow Christians try to avoid admitting to that fact, so I give you credit for that at least. So, I have a suggestion for you and all the rest of your fundamentalist ilk......Move to Russia. They have a fundamentalist, right wing utopia going on in that country right now that would be perfect for you and your kind. You can discriminate against homosexuals to your heart's content, you can force employee's under you to attend mass daily during the workday, and they are always cutting the budget. Enjoy your vodka and utopian, hate filled new country and leave this one to the people who would like to continue embracing freedom for everyone.The theory of evolution by cumulative natural selection is the only theory we know of that is in principle capable of explaining the existence of organized complexity. - Richard Dawkins Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night. - Issac Asimov If you removed all the arteries, veins, & capillaries from a person’s body, and tied them end-to-endthe person will die. - Neil Degrasse Tyson What would Buddha do? Nothing! What does the Buddhist terrorist do? Goes into the middle of the street, takes the gas, *pfft*, Self-Barbecue. The Christian and the Muslim on either side are yelling, "What the Fuck are you doing?" The Buddhist says, "Making you deal with your shit. - Robin Williams
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined:
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The entire world witnessed the growth of America's amazing prosperity and marveled at it. There were numerous empires that grew large and fell. Do you think all of them were because they were blessed by God. How about the Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Mongolian, Holy Roman Empire, Japanese, and Briitish? Where they prosperous because God blessed them?
You need to learn some history. I have a pretty firm grasp of history. Just not your warped view of it.
History IS in God's hands, all of it. Nothing happens by accident. God allows mankind to rise and fall. God's intervention into the affairs of man, only he knows the full extent of. Don't pretend you know. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given."It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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"I'll pay your passage to the colonies and in exchange you will work for me for a specific period of time (or with whatever terms) to pay off your debt to me."
They worked oof much more than the debt of passage. Indentured servitude could be much harsher than slavery, as the slave was a lifetime investment but indentured servants were only around for 7 years or so. Though a large percentage of immigrants to the new world in the 17th and 18th century were indentured servants, they came because their prospects in Europe seemed to be even worse. There are a number of good articles about the subject on the web. The wiki article is pretty good, but a number of others talk more about the brutality of the arrangement. As for the Chinese indentured servitude it is a little different but just as harsh and brutal. It is known as the Chinese ticket system.
quote:Source The difference between both and modern human trafficking is that modern human trafficking has no legal basis. Indentured servitude and Chinese-ticket system were supported by and authorized by the law. Society approved of the brutal systems.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9207 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.4
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Many regarded the Civil War as God's judgment for slavery.
And many don't think a god had anything to do with it. So there you go. What I am trying to say is that what "many regard" means absolutely squat.Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined:
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Yes because legal slavery, indenturtude, prostitution, and outright slaughter of millions of a land's native inhabitants by the orders of our "Christian" country is so much more Christ-like than what we have now. Or why would there need to be a Great Awakening in the British Isles and America if our country was so Christian back then. Revisionist history much?
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given."It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Revisionist history much? Wow! That is something you really need to ask yourself!
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 765 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Keep in mind that it would be possible to live among such riches without knowing how to exploit them. Knowledge is also God's gift. No to be braggin' or nuthin', but I'll bet I know more about cementing and fracking oil wells than Jesus does. Just sayin'....."The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
So provide evidence that I am wrong.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I'd bet you for sure but I won't be able to prove you wrong until He returns.
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DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3132 days) Posts: 1548 Joined:
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Than why are you even on this board? The whole purpose of this to reason and provide arguments for or against your position. You are so sure you are right about everything but don't provide one shred of evidence. Blind faith is not true faith.
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World "In coming to understand anything we are rejecting the facts as they are for us in favour of the facts as they are. - C.S. Lewis, An Experiment in Criticism
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nwr Member Posts: 6412 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
I'd bet you for sure but I won't be able to prove you wrong until He returns.
That's going to be a long, long wait.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Capt Stormfield Member Posts: 429 From: Vancouver Island Joined: |
A tragedy caused by religion Whatever was going through the heads of those morons, it was not Seventh-day Adventism. I was raised an SDA, and they emphatically do not discourage seeking medical care. They run a medical school at Loma Linda, FFS. KP
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