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Author Topic:   The Divine signature in the Torah
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 5 of 139 (721246)
03-05-2014 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Eliyahu
03-05-2014 12:52 PM


A Lie That Won't Die.
You continue to misrepresent the truth. You lie.
quote:
For example, Barry Simon of the Caltech mathematics department has shown that any sufficiently large text will have similar letter patterns in it. Famously, the same algorithms used in the Bible Codes yielded similarly prophetic results when used on Hebrew translations of War and Peace.
quote:
Indeed, when, in 1997, popular author Michael Drosnin (who wrote a book on the subject) challenged critics to find the same prophecy regarding the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in Moby Dick as Bible Codes folks had found in the Bible, Australian computer scientist Brendan McKay did just that, and for good measure he found letter arrangements predicting the assassinations of Trotsky, Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr.
In other words, the Bible Codes are bunk.
You ignore the overwhelming body of evidence that your bible codes are false and can be duplicated in many other works your god had nothing to do in creating ... unless you think both Melville and Tolstoy are gods.
You lie. Why? Is your faith that weak?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 12:52 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 4:59 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 8 of 139 (721264)
03-05-2014 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Eliyahu
03-05-2014 4:59 PM


This is not real
You didn't even bother with the source I provided, did you.
Here's another for you to ignore. Be sure not to look through all the links at the bottom.
And yet another with lots of links to ignore, especially the "Expert Opinions" link toward the bottom where there are a dozen links to studies each with links to more studies. You want overwhelming? You got it.
You really are an imbecilic silly little excuse for a jew, aren't you. Your rabbis must cringe with embarrassment every time you show up on Shabbat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 4:59 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 11:24 PM AZPaul3 has replied
 Message 37 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 11:24 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 17 of 139 (721278)
03-06-2014 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Eliyahu
03-05-2014 11:24 PM


Re: This is not real
The links contain the information on the Tolstoy and Melville codes as well as other information that debunks your divine cryptography.
As you said about the codes applies also to their refutation. "There is no debate necessary about these codes, because everybody can check them out, they are there. They are a fact." So check them out. They are a fact. Your holy protocols are bunk.
The evidence has been provided, Eli. All you have to do is click a button and read.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Eliyahu, posted 03-05-2014 11:24 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Eliyahu, posted 03-07-2014 1:22 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 22 of 139 (721308)
03-06-2014 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by ringo
03-06-2014 11:03 AM


If you pick the appropriate letters from Treasure Island it reveals the Ultimate Truth : "There is no God but Long John Silver."
That's it then isn't it? I always wondered why they made such god-awful fish planks.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 26 of 139 (721317)
03-06-2014 2:44 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Tangle
03-06-2014 1:59 PM


... and it's going to get you banned.
When?

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 44 of 139 (721419)
03-07-2014 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Eliyahu
03-06-2014 11:24 PM


Re: This is real
Just give me something that compares to the Esther code I gave you, a code with a constantly repeating very signifiicant number, like 12,111 in the purim code.
Why should we? Your junk's already been debunked times a thousand. We do not need to entertain any further presumptions of your delusions. Any further nonsense numerology from you only shows your desperation, your cognitive dissonance, at having watched one of your personal pillars of faith ground into dust by truth. The bible codes have been shown to be false and that is all that is necessary.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Eliyahu, posted 03-06-2014 11:24 PM Eliyahu has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 49 of 139 (721440)
03-07-2014 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Eliyahu
03-07-2014 1:22 AM


Re: This is not real
However, like I said, for the Great Rabbi's Experiment, a maximum chance of 1 in 1000 was demanded for publication, and a chance of less than 1 in 50,000 was delivered.
.
.
.
This in contradistinction to the Torah codes, which are statistically highly significant.
quote:
There are those who assert that it has been statistically proven that there are codes in the Torah so it can be used as a first step to get some non-religious Jews to start thinking seriously about yiddishkeit. But the virtually unanimous opinion of those professional mathematicians and statisticians who have carefully examined the evidence is that there has been no scientific proof of the codes.
There are three major problems with you great rabbis code fiasco.
- Any text of similar size yields similar word clusters as the torah.
- The probabilities you quote are based on methods not accepted by the mathematical community and are bogus.
- The very nature of Hebrew left lots of wiggle room in designing the word searches. If you don't find enough clusters of one spelling then add in the clusters for another, and yet a third.
That's just in data and methods. Now, let's talk real science. In trying to repeat this great rabbis fabrication using actual accepted mathematical standards the p values (significance) fall well below 1 in 5 let alone 1 in 1000 or your bogus 1 in 50,000.
quote:
Because minor variations in data definitions and the procedures used by Witztum et al. produce much less striking results, there is good reason to think that the particular forms of words those authors chose effectively "tuned" their method to their data, thus invalidating their statistical test.
And here is something else for you to consider. For these codes to be the true ciphers of your god they would only work if the masoretic text of today were infallible, letter by letter, to the original. You do realize that all scholars recognize that today's torah is not letter-for-letter perfect from the original despite your clumsy attempt to show otherwise. A quick look at the Qumran texts (the dead sea scrolls dated out to 400 BCE) shows this quite clearly. Based on this alone your "divine signature" is shown to be a forgery.
Your bible codes are bunk, always have been bunk, always will be bunk. There is nothing you can do to change this.
source
source
source
And just for jollies, a religious argument against your asinine codes.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : corrected error

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Eliyahu, posted 03-07-2014 1:22 AM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Eliyahu, posted 03-07-2014 9:42 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 54 of 139 (721445)
03-07-2014 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Eliyahu
03-07-2014 9:25 AM


Dr Rips, professor at the Hebrew University Jerusalem, one of the best mathematicians in the world
Dr. Fred Hoyle, one of the most outstanding, brilliant, prolific scientists in his time, went off the deep end late in his life, too.
Being best does not make all your pronouncements truth, especially when the rest of your colleagues have shown you where you erred.
A few years ago an entire team of equally brilliant egg-heads as your Dr. Rips announced they may have found superluminal neutrinos.
Being brilliant does not mean you are not wrong.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Eliyahu, posted 03-07-2014 9:25 AM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Eliyahu, posted 03-09-2014 8:37 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 58 of 139 (721455)
03-07-2014 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Eliyahu
03-07-2014 9:42 AM


Re: This is real
This is refuted in a peer reviewed publication presented at the 18th International Congres for Pattern Recognition in 2006
Show me.
Then explain why something with a so obvious fallacy passes through six years of peer review by the worlds best statisticians and was then published in Statistical Science.
Here's a hint.
quote:
Mr. Witztum concedes my point that because referees don’t always give papers extremely careful consideration, the acceptance in a scientific journal is only a weak indication of the paper’s correctness. But he says that his paper was different. First he claims that it passed scrutiny by Persi Diaconis, who all agree is one of the world’s leading statisticians. In fact, while Diaconis did think the paper worthy of publication as a discussion piece accompanied by a rebuttal, he was doubtful enough about the result that he offered to write that rebuttal himself. Moreover, at the time he was under the incorrect impression that the experimenters had used a statistical test he had proposed, when in fact they had used a completely different test which improved their result (see footnote 39). Recently, Diaconis has become convinced that the paper is totally invalid.
source
Edited by AZPaul3, : Added second topic
Edited by AZPaul3, : added bold. I'll stop now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Eliyahu, posted 03-07-2014 9:42 AM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 105 of 139 (721646)
03-10-2014 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Eliyahu
03-10-2014 2:40 PM


According to scientific rules, in order for critics to disprove the Torah codes, they would have to find fatal flaws in each of the six papers presenting a different approach and a different code. This happened five years ago, and to date not a single flaw was found in any of these papers. Therefore, for all intent and purposes, the Torah codes have been scientifically proven, and the debate is over.
Well, this certainly didn't come from any knowledgeable scientist, science text or philosophy of science. Sounds like it came from a religionist with his back against the wall and getting his teeth kicked in (metaphorically speaking) because of some inane argument that has been thoroughly destroyed going on two decades now. Reminds me of your attempt to mark punctuated equilibrium as the death knell of evolution. Silly man.
Nothing is ever proven in science. Only in religion can you be absolutely certain something is proven with little evidence, weak evidence or no evidence at all. This has been one of the hallmarks of religion for millennia.
The problem with those papers you keep citing is that, just like creation science, they are done by a small cadre of true believers publishing over and over and for whom no amount of reality will suffice. And if you read the damn things they are not "proofs" of anything, but different techniques to manipulate the data. Frankly, it really doesn't matter what gun and bullets you used when you go and paint your bullseyes around the bullet holes.
You are right about one thing. The debate is over ... has been over for more than 20 years. Your bible codes are shown to be bunk and always have been bunk.
Just like with Gould and Eldredge you were wrong again. It's time for you to go find the next thing you can be wrong about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Eliyahu, posted 03-10-2014 2:40 PM Eliyahu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 112 of 139 (721673)
03-11-2014 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Eliyahu
03-11-2014 12:07 AM


The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.
You keep going on about "proof". You're a religionist. You believe in "proof" ( and, no, I'm not speaking of the mathematics type). This is a science forum. The rest of us know there is no such thing.
The fact of the matter is, that the religion hating scientific community ...
You sure have that christian martyr complex down pat. Fact is science is at best totally ambivalent to your religions and at worst ignore your religions altogether. When it comes to science folks doing science stuff your religions are given no more thought than a lion gives a flea.
Don't flatter yourself that the scientific community is out to get you. They couldn't care less about you or your fictitious codes. They have already shown that it's bunk and there is no more to consider. That a few yahoos continue to push the subject isn't even a source of amusement anymore. Your codes, like your religions, shown to be false, are ignored.
The only problem with that statement is, that it is the rantings of a layman, who cannot bring the slightest proof for his blabber.
Have you read any of the papers? They deal with the preparations of the data and the algorithms of the search. Even in the mathematical sense they are not "proofs", nor were they meant to be "proofs", of anything. They do not prove your codes. They mean nothing.
Your bible codes are a dead fable propped up by a handful of religious fanatics. They are useless. You cannot show anyone otherwise no matter how much BS you put up on this site.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Eliyahu, posted 03-11-2014 12:07 AM Eliyahu has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 135 of 139 (759197)
06-09-2015 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by mikechell
06-09-2015 5:28 PM


Re: New to the site ....
In the bible I don't think any prophesy that specific has ever been made.
Now if you want to talk about the fundamentalist crazies with their "the world will end next Tuesday at 3:28 pm," they all fail all the time.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

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