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Author | Topic: What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18332 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Dr.Adequate writes: If critical thinking means anything, it must be defined as a way of thinking, not by the outcome. Reminds me of what Henry Hazlitt said in 1916
Thinking As A Science writes:
When they think at all, the last thing men think about is their own thoughts. Every sensible man realizes that the perfection of a mechanical instrument depends to some extent upon the perfection of the tools with which it is made. No carpenter would expect a perfectly smooth board after using a dented or chipped plane. No gasolene engine manufacturer would expect to produce a good motor unless he had the best lathes obtainable to help him turn out his product. No watchmaker would expect to construct a perfectly accurate timepiece unless he had the most delicate and accurate tools to turn out the cogs and screws. Before any specialist produces an instrument he thinks of the tools with which he is to produce it. But men reflect continually on the most complex problemsproblems of vital importance to themand expect to obtain satisfactory solutions, without once giving a thought to the manner in which they go about obtaining those solutions; without a thought to their own mind, the tool which produces those solutions. Surely this deserves at least some systematic consideration.
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Taq Member Posts: 10067 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Critical thinking is what leads to faith in the right things. How do you determine what the right things are?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Critical thinking is what leads to faith in the right things.
How do you determine what the right things are? By whether or not she has faith in it, obviously.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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As a sidebar, 'faith' is often used somewhat ambiguously. One can say they have 'faith' that their car will start in the morning. But it isn't a spiritual statement. At least, for most of us. One would probably be better off saying they have 'confidence' that their car will start in the morning. Exactly. We can have confidence in concepts that have been tested, the more they are tested, the more confidence we have. When we find agreement\consilience with results from different processes this too increases confidence. Confidence should never be considered absolute, while faith can be. Faith is more like trust, and it is more of an emotional aspect. This does not mean that there is no room for faith in critical thinking, just that one should be wary, we can have faith in an assumption that is not tested, based on our core beliefs and knowledge (our worldview), but we should be wary because it is untested. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Ultimately, from my view, faith at its core level means accepting something with limited to no evidence. Or perhaps, accepting something despite contrary evidence. Delusion is also accepting things despite evidence to the contrary. How do you draw a line between Faith and delusion? Indeed the definition of delusion is believing something in spite of contradictory information. An example is believing that the earth is younger than 10 or 12 thousand years old -- there is massive evidence that contradicts this belief. To me this is an indicator of the possible validity of a belief system -- with an inverse relationship to the number/s of evidence that must be denied to maintain the belief/s. To me, critical thinking is a method of applying logical evaluation to concepts to see how they fit against one's worldview. This takes it a step beyond the application of the scientific method, building on it to include aspects that are not amenable to that method. Thus, rather than limiting one-self to only concepts that are tested, one limits one's worldview to allow tested concepts and concepts that are not contradicted, and maintaining skeptical acceptance\confidence in an inverse relationship to the degree of testing. Is a concept tested?
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2131 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I agree with what you posted above, but don't go getting all pedantic on us again!
;-)Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Of course I wasn't defining it, just stating what I knew to be contrary to the prevailing EvC opinion. There's no point in the likes of me trying to define critical thinking or anything else at this forum. Or saying anything at all for that matter.
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roxrkool Member (Idle past 1014 days) Posts: 1497 From: Nevada Joined: |
To me, critical thinking is the mechanism I use to process and evaluate data. The first thing I do is determine whether the data/hypotheses/theories/etc. are credible and valid. In order to do this, I look to see how the data was collected, who collected it, how it was measured/analyzed/captured, how it was interpreted, and how it is presented. And then I determine whether the conclusions drawn are reasonable and logical.
If I am confident in the quality of the data, then I feel comfortable using it. But I always maintain some level of doubt. I never accept anything, whether I generated it or not, at face value. There is room for error everywhere. My motto for as long as I can remember is "question everything." My basic beliefs have not changed since I first started at this forum. I have always been a skeptic and remain so today. As for you, I think you have become a better thinker and your critical thinking skills have certainly improved. However, I feel that you are reluctant to evolve further for fear of what you might find. You want to believe what you have always believed and this is your default position. A safe position. Moving beyond what you want to believe is not something you are actively seeking, but you are curious and keep picking at it a tiny bit at a time. Edited by roxrkool, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2131 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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Of course I wasn't defining it, just stating what I knew to be contrary to the prevailing EvC opinion. Of course you were. You were presenting your personal belief, which is pretty much the opposite of critical thinking. Or any thinking at all. You have told us repeatedly that your belief stems from the bible (or your interpretation of it) and that evidence will not change your mind. There is no critical thinking involved there--just religious apologetics. The bible says it, you believe it. No thinking needed!
There's no point in the likes of me trying to define critical thinking or anything else at this forum. That's true. Words (and phrases) already have meanings. You don't get to come along and change the meanings or the definitions of them because you disagree with where they lead.
Or saying anything at all for that matter. Now, that's not true. You have every right to comment here, just as we have every right to agree or disagree with you. Who would a lot of us disagree with if you weren't here?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.
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Phat Member Posts: 18332 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
RAZD writes: Confidence should never be considered absolute, while faith can be. Faith is more like trust, and it is more of an emotional aspect. This does not mean that there is no room for faith in critical thinking, just that one should be wary, we can have faith in an assumption that is not tested, based on our core beliefs and knowledge (our worldview), but we should be wary because it is untested. confidence quote: Emotions+trust can bypass the need for evidence, but it is honest to "be wary". I could honestly agree that I "know" God does not exist--based on Stiles definition, but at the same time honestly say that I believe with all of my being that God does in fact exist.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3
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quote: That really isn't a definition (or if its intended as one it's hopelessly wrong. You can't define a method by its outcome - a method is a way of attempting to achieve a desired outcome) Critical thinking is careful evaluation of claims and the evidence available. And to do it properly you have to apply it to everything. The real test of a critical thinker is applying it to overcome your own biases. In fact Phat, good critical thinking is the best defence against self-worship there is. Being hypercritical of opponent's views, while being credulous of anything you like is the opposite of good critical thinking. And is exactly the sort of thinking typical of self-worshippers.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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That really isn't a definition (or if its intended as one it's hopelessly wrong. You can't define a method by its outcome - a method is a way of attempting to achieve a desired outcome) Why should it be a definition? One could as easily say (paraphrase):
Critical thinking is what leads to acceptance of valid things. And I have no trouble with that statement: that is the goal is it not?
Critical thinking is careful evaluation of claims and the evidence available. And to do it properly you have to apply it to everything. The real test of a critical thinker is applying it to overcome your own biases, ... Logically and unbiased. Open-minded, yet skeptical. Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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Critical thinking is what leads to acceptance of valid things. Because the definition is useless. To use the definition, we have to decide what is valid. and we have to acknowledge that at times we must act without complete information. Finally, critical thinking alone is not sufficient to lead to acceptance of only valid things. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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PaulK Member Posts: 17825 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I don't think that the goal is to make short, superficial and uncontroversial statements. If it isn't intended as a definition, all it tells us is why Faith is so often wrong.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1430 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Because the definition is useless. ... Again I did not see it as being a definition, just a statement.
Finally, critical thinking alone is not sufficient to lead to acceptance of only valid things. Elucidate. by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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