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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 61 of 339 (721987)
03-14-2014 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by New Cat's Eye
03-14-2014 9:50 AM


Its still possible for you to function normally even if you have a psychosis.
Not with what is usually understood to be a psychosis, which involves disorganized thoughts among other things -- according to internet sources I looked up. If a psychosis is defined simply by the unusual experiences that kind of begs the question.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 62 of 339 (721988)
03-14-2014 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
03-14-2014 11:50 AM


Re: Psychosis and Hallucinations
delete double post
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 63 of 339 (721989)
03-14-2014 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by New Cat's Eye
03-14-2014 11:50 AM


Re: Psychosis and Hallucinations
CS writes:
One time, I was sober, I was woken up in the middle of the night by some deep raspy voice speaking some weird foreign language. After I woke up, I could still hear the voice. It was coming from right above me. I sounded like some demonic spell or something. Like an incantation. Scared the shit out of me.
I sat up in bed and looked around for the source, but couldn't find one. It eventually stopped talking and that was that.
I have had a couple of events that are scientifically known as Hypnagogia or Paralyzed Wakefulness. One time I wanted to move but could not. I tried to ask Jesus to help me but couldn't even speak. So I simply willfully thought my prayer/plea. I then woke up. I wont say that Jesus helped me, but I wont deny it either. Thus I will admit to a fondness for confirmation bias, which undoubtedly interferes with my critical thinking on such matters.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 64 of 339 (721990)
03-14-2014 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
03-14-2014 11:34 AM


Re: Subjective Experiences
I suppose that by definition I should seek any and all ways to either disprove my initial conclusion or hypothesize another reason...
I wouldn't consider critical thinking as "any and all ways". I wouldn't use a dowsing rod to try and disprove seismic imaging, as one example.
I would think that critical thinking involves a narrowing down of methods and evidence to find what is valid and what is not.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 339 (721991)
03-14-2014 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
03-14-2014 12:06 PM


No, you're talking about a psychotic disorder. Normal everyday people can suffer from a psychosis for a variety of reasons. It doesn't mean you cannot function normally.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 66 of 339 (721993)
03-14-2014 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Taq
03-14-2014 12:16 PM


Re: Subjective Experiences
Taq writes:
I would think that critical thinking involves a narrowing down of methods and evidence to find what is valid and what is not.
We need to be critical of the method itself.

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 67 of 339 (721994)
03-14-2014 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
03-14-2014 12:16 PM


Re: Psychosis and Hallucinations
So I simply willfully thought my prayer/plea. I then woke up. I wont say that Jesus helped me, but I wont deny it either.
After this, therefore because of this

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 68 of 339 (721995)
03-14-2014 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Faith
03-14-2014 12:06 PM


Psychosis or Spiritual War?
I dont believe that believers are psychotic, by definition. I can admit that we are more likely to dismiss other explanations apart from our belief, and thus confirmation biased, but I maintain that we are quite sane...though critics may challenge that our belief itself is delusional. I have not found it to be so.
I do catch myself being quite irrational at times--perhaps dogmatic as well, but I also catch many atheists/agnostics, and unbelievers go out of their way to even consider that God may be one possibility among many.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 69 of 339 (721996)
03-14-2014 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ringo
03-14-2014 12:22 PM


Re: Subjective Experiences
One mans validity is another mans delusion.
How do we arrive at consensus on what is valid?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 70 of 339 (721998)
03-14-2014 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
03-14-2014 11:42 AM


Re: Evaluating Our Experiences
I've never had the experience of casting out demons but have heard and read about them. From what you've said yours sounds like the real thing. Hair standing on end is a standard experience in the presence of demons. The hair on the back of my neck was standing up after I'd had that apparition in my room threatening me. I'd blurted out a phrase I'd learned from a member of a Christian cult and it had disappeared but the sensation on the back of my neck lingered.
Such phenomena are normally explained away by modern psychology but I think THAT's the prejudicial thinking. If you take all the evidence into account I think it's fair to conclude we're talking about real spiritual beings, i.e., demons. At the time I didn't know what to make of the half angel, half devil apparition my friend had told me about, or the apparition of her Zen teacher sitting at the foot of her bed that the other friend had told me about, but putting it together with my own experiences and the experiences of demons described in the Bible, and books about such things, it seems to me you have to be led to the conclusion that these things are not hallucinations, not products of your own mind, but real. SOMETIMES they could be hallucinations or even fraud of course, but the ones we're discussing here aren't like that.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 71 of 339 (721999)
03-14-2014 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
03-14-2014 12:24 PM


Re: Psychosis or Spiritual War?
Phat writes:
I dont believe that believers are psychotic, by definition.
The definition of psychotic or the definition of belief?

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 72 of 339 (722000)
03-14-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
03-14-2014 12:27 PM


Re: Evaluating Our Experiences
Faith writes:
SOMETIMES they could be hallucinations or even fraud of course, but the ones we're discussing here aren't like that.
At least that is what we have concluded. We can admit to confirmation bias, however. We choose to believe the explanations that we accept. People simply have to experience similar events in order to allow subjective shared experience to be included in the data.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 73 of 339 (722001)
03-14-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by New Cat's Eye
03-14-2014 12:16 PM


Oh I do not think so. Where do you get your certainty?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 74 of 339 (722002)
03-14-2014 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phat
03-14-2014 12:16 PM


Re: Psychosis and Hallucinations
Years after the experiences I described I was visiting a charismatic Christian commune and woke up in the middle of the night with the sensation of an evil presence gripping my throat and trying to strangle me. I thought the words "I'm covered by the blood of Jesus" and it went away.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 75 of 339 (722003)
03-14-2014 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by ringo
03-14-2014 12:30 PM


Re: Psychosis or Spiritual War?
ringo writes:
The definition of psychotic or the definition of belief?
the definition of belief as a psychosis. The jury is still out. They are having lunch up the street.

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