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Author Topic:   What Does Critical Thinking Mean To You?
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 166 of 339 (722327)
03-20-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by RAZD
03-19-2014 5:22 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
RAZD writes:
The default position is your worldview beliefs: that will be the basis for any decision without clear answers, and it will not be critical thinking so much as blind reaction.
Worldview beliefs don't always apply. If you come to a fork in the road you have to make a choice. The bridge might be out on one road but with no evidence one way or the other, the default position is that the bridge is okay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by RAZD, posted 03-19-2014 5:22 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2014 5:47 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 167 of 339 (722328)
03-20-2014 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by New Cat's Eye
03-19-2014 6:59 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
ringo writes:
In such cases,
you're not being critical of your thoughts.
You can be as critical as you like. Critical thinking is not a magic wand that applies to every situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-19-2014 6:59 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:06 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 168 of 339 (722329)
03-20-2014 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by ringo
03-20-2014 11:58 AM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
You can be as critical as you like. Critical thinking is not a magic wand that applies to every situation.
Yes, of course. There's plenty of decisions I make that don't involve critical thinking.
The question here is, when are you employing it and when are you not.
You're not employing it when you are not being critical of your thoughts.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 11:58 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 169 of 339 (722330)
03-20-2014 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:06 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
The question here is, when are you employing it and when are you not.
I was responding to the question, "Is it really critical to make such a decision when no evidence points either way?" My point is that in some situations, critical thinking only takes you so far and then your default position, critically, is that absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:06 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:19 PM ringo has replied
 Message 181 by RAZD, posted 03-20-2014 5:56 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 170 of 339 (722331)
03-20-2014 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by ringo
03-20-2014 12:12 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
I don't think making a decision in the absence of evidence is thinking critically at all.
If you don't have the means to be critical of you thoughts, then there's no reason to try to still make it out as being critical thinking.
It just isn't, its no biggie.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:30 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 171 of 339 (722335)
03-20-2014 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:19 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
I don't think making a decision in the absence of evidence is thinking critically at all.
I think if you've considered all of the available evidence and looked into ways of obtaining more evidence, then there's no way to distinguish that methodology from critical thinking.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:35 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 172 of 339 (722336)
03-20-2014 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by ringo
03-20-2014 12:30 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
I think if you've considered all of the available evidence and looked into ways of obtaining more evidence, then there's no way to distinguish that methodology from critical thinking.
If there's evidence available then it ain't an absence of evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:30 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:42 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 173 of 339 (722340)
03-20-2014 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:35 PM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Catholic Scientist writes:
If there's evidence available then it ain't an absence of evidence.
It is if all the available evidence is none.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:35 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 174 of 339 (722343)
03-20-2014 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by ringo
03-20-2014 12:42 PM


Huh?
Catholic Scientist writes:
If there's evidence available then it ain't an absence of evidence.
It is if all the available evidence is none.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:42 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:57 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 175 of 339 (722347)
03-20-2014 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:52 PM


Re: Huh?
Take two possibilities, unicorns and hippos. You look for evidence for both. You find evidence for hippos and no evidence for unicorns. You conclude that hippos exist, based on the evidence. You conclude that unicorns don't exist, based on the evidence. How is one process critical thinking and the other not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 12:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 176 of 339 (722348)
03-20-2014 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by ringo
03-20-2014 12:57 PM


Re: Huh?
Take two possibilities, unicorns and hippos. You look for evidence for both. You find evidence for hippos and no evidence for unicorns. You conclude that hippos exist, based on the evidence. You conclude that unicorns don't exist, based on the evidence. How is one process critical thinking and the other not?
Being critical of your thoughts would make you realize that being unable to find evidence for unicorns shouldn't make you conclude that they don't exist and that you should reserve your judgement until you can find actual evidence of absence.
Like, every corner of the planet was observed to contain no unicorns, so therefore they must not be here. Not, welp, I took a glance and didn't see any so they must not exist.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 12:57 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 1:11 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 185 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-21-2014 12:09 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 177 of 339 (722349)
03-20-2014 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 1:04 PM


Re: Huh?
Catholic Scientist writes:
... you should reserve your judgement until you can find actual evidence of absence.
Again, my original point was that sometimes you have to make a decision now based on the evidence you have now.
The critical thinking process is the same even if you don't have the leisure to carry it through as far as you might like. It should always be an ongoing process. There is no point at which it magically becomes "critical thinking".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 1:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by Phat, posted 03-20-2014 1:55 PM ringo has replied
 Message 179 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 3:56 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 178 of 339 (722354)
03-20-2014 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by ringo
03-20-2014 1:11 PM


No Monsters is a preferred default.
Personally, I see ringos "judgement" as being more of a choice. My theory is that you (ringo) have chosen to accept "no monsters" as your default position due to the fact that you regard religious theistic thinking as more delusional than atheistic critical thought.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 1:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by ringo, posted 03-21-2014 11:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 179 of 339 (722367)
03-20-2014 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by ringo
03-20-2014 1:11 PM


Re: Huh?
Again, my original point was that sometimes you have to make a decision now based on the evidence you have now.
Can you give me an example? Why not just not decide?
The critical thinking process is the same even if you don't have the leisure to carry it through as far as you might like. It should always be an ongoing process. There is no point at which it magically becomes "critical thinking".
I think I get what you're saying, in that you can still be being critical of your thoughts even why making decision based on insufficient evidence, but I still think that if you're not waiting until you have sufficient evidence, for whatever reason that you have to decide, then you're not really thinking critically. You can't, you don't have the time to. You have to decide.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 1:11 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 183 by ringo, posted 03-21-2014 12:03 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 180 of 339 (722386)
03-20-2014 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by ringo
03-20-2014 11:55 AM


Re: Rejection with no evidence for rejection
Worldview beliefs don't always apply. If you come to a fork in the road you have to make a choice. ...
If it is a choice, then your worldview affects the choice you make; your experiences, your knowledge your beliefs, all go to what choices you make.
... The bridge might be out on one road but with no evidence one way or the other, the default position is that the bridge is okay.
Or your default position might be to take the one less traveled by, in which case you might expect the bridge to be in need of repair ...
... which depends on your purpose in going down the road in the first place. And that too depends on your worldview.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 03-20-2014 11:55 AM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
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