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Author Topic:   Could asteroids lead to the extinction of YECism ?
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 954
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 16 of 137 (722324)
03-20-2014 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
03-19-2014 1:36 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
I found one creationist website attributing the origin of the asteroids to Earth itself, specifically to what is described as a very explosive opening of the "fountains of the deep" as mentioned in the Bible, shooting rock into space. Here's a discussion of that theory

I know a little bit about that theory. It can't, in an of itself, explain the craters. One of the big issues is that the thermodynamics involved would superheat the water so that it would be vapor in that circumstance. But the other issue has to do with the orbital nature of the moon.

As most are aware, the moon's circular rotation matches its orbit of the Earth. Which means that we only ever have one face of the moon pointing towards the Earth. If the fountains of the deep were responsible for the cratering, they could not have produced craters on the dark side of the moon. It would be akin to firing a shotgun at a stationary, solid target, like a bowling ball. One side of the ball would be peppered with shotgun pellets while the back side was unscathed. But what we seen with the moon is that the cratering covers the entire surface of the moon. Meaning that impact strikes had to occur on the side pointing away from Earth. The fountains of the deep would not have been able to reach that side.


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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 17 of 137 (722332)
03-20-2014 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Diomedes
03-20-2014 11:18 AM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
As most are aware, the moon's circular rotation matches its orbit of the Earth. Which means that we only ever have one face of the moon pointing towards the Earth. If the fountains of the deep were responsible for the cratering, they could not have produced craters on the dark side of the moon.

Before the fountains were opened, the moon's circular rotation did not match its orbit of the Earth. The bombardment of "asteroids" from the fountains opening up and blasting rocks to the moon slowed down the moon's rotational speed to the point where it matched up with its orbital speed.


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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16111
Joined: 07-20-2006


(5)
Message 18 of 137 (722333)
03-20-2014 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
03-19-2014 1:36 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
Wow, is there anything the Flood can't do?

* It can deposit sedimentary rocks in such a way as to accord perfectly with the expectations of geologists, to the extent, even, of perfectly mimicking subaerial deposition.

* It can give igneous rocks the appearance of age in such a way as to accord perfectly with the expectations of geologists.

* It can arrange fossils within the rocks in such a way as to accord perfectly with the expectations of biologists.

* It can create asteroids to age the face of the Moon and the planets in such a way as to accord perfectly with the expectations of astronomers.

And how does it do all this?

somehow

Ah, I see.

And it does all this without God mentioning it in the Bible, because although he agrees with YECs he also wants them to look like idiots. So he carefully gave the waters of the Flood these miraculous powers to fake the appearance of an old Earth and of evolution, but didn't mention this anywhere in his Word. He's such a prankster, isn't he?


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 954
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 19 of 137 (722341)
03-20-2014 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:27 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
Before the fountains were opened, the moon's circular rotation did not match its orbit of the Earth. The bombardment of "asteroids" from the fountains opening up and blasting rocks to the moon slowed down the moon's rotational speed to the point where it matched up with its orbital speed.

Of course! How did I miss that.

And this was also around the time that the moon transformed from actual cheese into solid rock, yes?


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 137 (722345)
03-20-2014 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Diomedes
03-20-2014 12:43 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
Of course! How did I miss that.

In order to be a creationist, you gotta be... uh, creative.


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 137 (722346)
03-20-2014 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Dr Adequate
03-20-2014 12:28 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
Wow, is there anything the Flood can't do?

Actually admit to being magical, apparently.


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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 954
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 22 of 137 (722360)
03-20-2014 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 12:56 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
Actually admit to being magical, apparently.

I have never actually quite understood that notion myself. The Bible is rife with notions of miracles and miraculous occurrences. I find it strange that many YECs try to pigeon-hole science into their belief system. It's almost as if they are trying to give 'legitimacy' to their worldview by leveraging the current knowledge of science and its proven track record. Yet at the same time, belittling science as being inaccurate or arrogant. Very strange disconnect.

If God can perform miracles, than just say so. You can say anything in that case. The Flood could have happened, two of every animal could have repopulated the Earth, Noah could have lived 900 years, etc. if you invoke miracles. The notion is part in parcel with the belief system, so I fail to see why so many YECs are hesitant in utilizing it.


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Replies to this message:
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saab93f
Member (Idle past 1218 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 23 of 137 (722362)
03-20-2014 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Faith
03-19-2014 1:36 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
I just googled this subject and found quite a bit of creationist thinking on the source of asteroids: Google "Asteroids Creationism"

Silly, there is no such thing as creationist thinking :-)
There is no limits to the wacky ideas cretins are willing to support just in order to validate the scripture.

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Taq
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Posts: 8270
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 24 of 137 (722364)
03-20-2014 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
03-19-2014 11:19 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
I don't have a position on the view I referenced, thought perhaps others here might. The point is mainly that the view presented earlier in this thread as the creationist view isn't representative. If nobody has an opinion then nobody has an opinion, but the creationist view appears to be something other than previously presented.

What I am saying is that we would prefer to see some scientific theories based on evidence, not "views". You know what they say about elbows and assholes? Everyone has them. The same for views. What we are interested in is the evidence, not what some creationists website professes as their beliefs.


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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 137 (722366)
03-20-2014 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Diomedes
03-20-2014 3:08 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
I have never actually quite understood that notion myself.

Yeah, its ridiculous. Oh, animals gradually changing throughout generations? No, that's impossible, there must be some intelligence involved. But a flood that can shoot rocks to the moon? Yeah, totally natural, no supernatural involvement.

What. The. Fuck.

I find it strange that many YECs try to pigeon-hole science into their belief system. It's almost as if they are trying to give 'legitimacy' to their worldview by leveraging the current knowledge of science and its proven track record.

Its gotten to the point where it is undeniable that science works. We put a man on the frickin' moon, n'everything.

Yet at the same time, belittling science as being inaccurate or arrogant. Very strange disconnect.

I just find it harder and harder to believe that these people are sincere. Like, they've got to be kidding us, right?

If God can perform miracles, than just say so. You can say anything in that case. The Flood could have happened, two of every animal could have repopulated the Earth, Noah could have lived 900 years, etc. if you invoke miracles. The notion is part in parcel with the belief system, so I fail to see why so many YECs are hesitant in utilizing it.

If God used magic to make the flood happen and then disguised the earth to look like the flood never happened, then he would not be being a very nice and honest god. More of a prankster, in fact. Like Loki.

They can't be having that...


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Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 954
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 26 of 137 (722397)
03-20-2014 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2014 3:52 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
I just find it harder and harder to believe that these people are sincere. Like, they've got to be kidding us, right?

Some aren't sincere. Some are just scam artists masquerading as honest, humble, faith-driven religious folk. Prime example are a lot of politicians that placate to this nonsense or folks like Kent Hovind, who try to leverage nonsense and gullibility of the masses to bank some money at their expense.

If God used magic to make the flood happen and then disguised the earth to look like the flood never happened, then he would not be being a very nice and honest god. More of a prankster, in fact. Like Loki.

They can't be having that...

They could always just argue that it is a 'test of faith'. God deliberately seeded the Earth with false information that counters the Bible as a means to test the faith of the virtuous. Kind of a variant of last Thursday-ism.


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 Message 25 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2014 3:52 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

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Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 27 of 137 (722426)
03-21-2014 3:45 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Taq
03-20-2014 3:27 PM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
What I am saying is that we would prefer to see some scientific theories based on evidence, not "views". You know what they say about elbows and assholes? Everyone has them. The same for views. What we are interested in is the evidence, not what some creationists website professes as their beliefs.

Perhaps someone will come along with the scientific theories based on evidence that you would prefer to see, but all I was doing was pointing out that there are creationist views that hadn't been mentioned in this thread so far. I understand you'd prefer I had done something else, so all I can say is that I'm sorry to have disappointed you and hope your fondest dreams come true.


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Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 28 of 137 (722427)
03-21-2014 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Diomedes
03-20-2014 11:18 AM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
That's an interesting observation about the dark side of the moon.

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Faith 
Suspended Member
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 29 of 137 (722428)
03-21-2014 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by vimesey
03-19-2014 11:45 AM


Craters on the dark side of the moon
Yeah, it's funny how the moon, that well-known hotbed of volcanic activity, could have produced calderas, evenly distributed across its entire surface . . .

Interestingly, there is volcanic activity on the moon. Lava flows are mentioned in this Scientific American article about the
multiple small craters on the dark side of the moon

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7614
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 30 of 137 (722429)
03-21-2014 4:09 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by vimesey
03-20-2014 7:50 AM


Re: Origin of asteroids in the Flood
thirdly, the vast majority of any that made it out of our atmosphere, would presumably miss the moon anyway. We don't send moon up vehicles randomly.

Bonkers.


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.

Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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