Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID

Right, exactly what I said. Religion is a choice, even more so than you claim homosexuality is. I guarantee you that no church in the U.S. will ever be forced to perform a same sex marriage, any more than any has ever been forced to perform a mixed faith marriage or a mixed race marriage. So put your mind at ease on that count.As far as a baker is concerned, several states in this country have decided that it is illegal to discriminate in the provision of public services against someone because of their sexuality. Nobody is forcing anyone to bake a cake, but if one chooses to go into the bakery business and hold themselves out to the public as a baker, they have to take on all comers. If you don't like that some of those comers might be celebrating ceremonies you disapprove of, get out of that business.

Your ability to ignore a point when you're wrong is impressive.

And by that logic, the Muslim baker should not have to serve women or Jews. Because we wouldn't want to have him compromise his religious beliefs.And the Jehovah Witness doctor should not be forced to have to perform a blood transfusion on a dying patient. Wouldn't want to compromise their religious beliefs now would we?The cartwheels religious fundies perform to justify their nonsense is beyond embarrassing. And it is so easy to poke holes in their worldview, that I am beginning to think that the symbol for Christian Fundamentalism should not be a cross: it should be a brick of Swiss Cheese.

You make a good point I'm sorry to say. So we're going to have to take punishment for upholding the Biblical view that homosexuality as a sin and refusing to do anything that validates gay marriage.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Remember? Big Gay Al is shoving cocks down his throat, kidnapping him and forcing him to have gay poop orgies.

Or you could just stop publically selling cakes, or whatever.If you still want to sell cakes, you could open up a private, membership-only, christian bakery that picks and chooses its customers.

All of which I consider to be taking punishment. One way or another if we want to stand for our Biblical beliefs we'll have to take some kind of punishment.

Maybe so, but isn't that better than the open resentment of a public into whom you try to cram your beliefs? Instead of forceful lord and master, christians could try to play nice with society.

And part of living in America and having freedom of beliefs is that others are just as free to disagree with you and to act on their beliefs as long as there is no harm.When you discriminate, denigrate and demonize certain people because of your beliefs you cause harm. It doesn't matter what you use as a basis for such discriminatory behavior, it causes harm.Now you may argue that the existence of such people cause you harm, but they are not acting with intent to harm while you are. That is where it crosses the line of acceptable behavior in a free society.There is no secular purpose to such discrimination, so the only justification is in specific personal beliefs.That is not enough to justify discrimination in a free society: it is not your place to pass judgment on people based on beliefs.

You are arguing that evolution would not favor a situation where members of a species do not reproduce because of genetics. Worker bees demonstrates that you are wrong. Evolution can and does select for genetic mutations that result in non-reproducing individuals in a social species.

Your stand requires you to punish others and take away their human rights. That's the problem.

I find it strange that christians would consider it punishment to treat fellow human beings with a little bit of dignity and fairness.

Just like Christians of the past had to adjust to societal acceptance of interracial marriage, ending slavery, women voting ...

Yeah, well, what do you know? You can't even accept basic facts about our world, and you make up your own definitions for words.So pardon me for thinking your considerations are worthless. Oh boo-hoo. Waah, I can't open a public bakery and discriminate against people. Waah, I'm being so punished. Jon Jones and David Koresh, now there were some people who were punished for standing up for their Biblical beliefs.And you're wining because people won't let you discriminate. Tsk tsk.

Women owning property, running businesses, becoming engineers and doctors ...Sadly we still have the Equal Pay Act sitting in congress because the house won't put it up for vote ... some recalcitrant misogynistic bigotry still going on (just like there is still some race bigotry going on, especially in red states and voter suppression).