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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(3)
Message 211 of 1309 (723159)
03-27-2014 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:51 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
I have never said nor implied nor thought nor felt that anybody is less than I because different than I
But I said "treated" as less. You are supporting the ability of certain people to treat homosexuals as less than non-homosexuals, by refusing to serve them. I do not see how you can characterise that as anything other than treating them as less than you (as in "less than the person refusing to serve them"). That is certainly and absolutely how the person who has just been refused service will feel.
It just doesn't work that way.
Sure it does. Take one for the team - say to yourself, "maybe the type of Christian morality which I have found will be offended, and I may feel uncomfortable about it, but I will bear my discomfort, and give joy, love and respect to my fellow human being, the big lug !"

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:51 AM Faith has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 212 of 1309 (723162)
03-27-2014 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
03-27-2014 3:24 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
I'm stating simple facts in a completely objective manner
This is the kind of rampant dishonesty that makes people dislike you. Your "facts" are false and your "objectivity" requires your own invented definitions.
"I'm being punished"
"No, here's the reasons why you're not"
"Well, I consider it punishment."
(╯□)╯︵ ┻━┻
You state your own personal considerations as if they were facts and then when you're shown to be wrong you just fall back on them being your opinion anyways.
Stop it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:24 AM Faith has not replied

New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 213 of 1309 (723163)
03-27-2014 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


And ya know what. I think it's finally hit me just how deeply hated I am here, I mean the rhetoric that has been coming against me is like sheer pure hate.
You should try being honest instead.
Time to leave.
Thank God!
Edited by Catholic Scientist, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 214 of 1309 (723164)
03-27-2014 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


the martyr complex again
And ya know what. I think it's finally hit me just how deeply hated I am here, I mean the rhetoric that has been coming against me is like sheer pure hate. Funny it took so long for that to get through to me. In any case I finally get the message. Time to leave.
Paul McCartney
quote:
And in the end
The love you take
Is equal to the love
You make.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(4)
Message 215 of 1309 (723166)
03-27-2014 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Faith
03-27-2014 3:17 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Interracial marriage is not opposed by Christian doctrine.
Neither is selling cakes to gay couples.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 3:17 AM Faith has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(2)
Message 216 of 1309 (723167)
03-27-2014 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
03-27-2014 7:44 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
In my opinion no Christian here has expressed anything remotely along the lines of "hate rhetoric" etc.
It is hate rhetoric each and every time you vocally support a political movement to take away the rights of homosexuals, which you have done repeatedly. Time and again, you have supported the idea that homosexuals should be discriminated against, segregated from heterosexuals, and treated as less than heterosexuals.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 7:44 AM Faith has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 217 of 1309 (723176)
03-27-2014 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 184 by Faith
03-26-2014 3:44 PM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
Faith writes:
So we're going to have to take punishment for upholding the Biblical view that homosexuality as a sin and refusing to do anything that validates gay marriage.
You'll lose your business licence for refusing to serve gay people or black people - the same as you'll lose your business licence for having cockroaches walking across the customers' plates.
If you're "punished" for refusing to comply with community standards, at least every other religion (and atheists too) will be punished according to the same standards.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 03-26-2014 3:44 PM Faith has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 218 of 1309 (723177)
03-27-2014 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


Faith writes:
I think it's finally hit me just how deeply hated I am here....
quote:
Matthew 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
Mirror, mirror, again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(4)
Message 219 of 1309 (723179)
03-27-2014 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


Hated?
Ha!
For your views of science you are looked upon with amusement, annoyance, pity, or disdain or some mix of those.
For your views on how other people should be treated the feelings are probably stronger but hate is much to strong a word for any of it I would think. Disgust comes to mind.
If anyone should manage to hate it would be sincere Christians whose religion you make look foolish to those who don't separate out the minority of Christians who tarnish the name from the majority who can actually think and do understand the message. But I think they might tend more to a mix of annoyance and pity than anything else.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 220 of 1309 (723182)
03-27-2014 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


And ya know what. I think it's finally hit me just how deeply hated I am here, I mean the rhetoric that has been coming against me is like sheer pure hate. Funny it took so long for that to get through to me. In any case I finally get the message. Time to leave.
All you are is a self-righteous, pompous windbag, no one cares enough about you to hate you. I for one pity you. The thing you will find out about non-religious and also non-fundie religious people is it seems most of us don't resort to hate. We may disagree and we may disapprove and we may find behaviors disgusting, but rarely do we resort to hate.
You threaten to leave every few months, you are like the boy who cried wolf. Leave already, all you do is humiliate yourself with your lame attempts at preaching.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 221 of 1309 (723188)
03-27-2014 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by AZPaul3
03-27-2014 6:59 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
I thought leading by love, tolerance and respect, leading by example, were supposed to be the christian things to do. For a lot of christian cults this is, apparently, not the case.
Where on Earth did you get this idea? The source of all our knowledge about god's character (the Bible) tells us He wants the gays all dead.
Leviticus 20:13
Not serving them bread is just a watered down version of this because a fundemental xian honestly believe being gay is against God and therefor evil.
From a fundamentalist point of view it is perfectly logical to not want to be party to being being gay (even down to feeding them).
Your point about xians now living in a world where their preferences are kowtowed to being over must really bother them.
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by AZPaul3, posted 03-27-2014 6:59 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(3)
Message 222 of 1309 (723190)
03-27-2014 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


So hated and downtrodden you are that you are free to post messages containing nothing more than "IDIOT IDIOT IDIOT" and face ZERO repercussions. It must be so terrible being so oppressed.

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 223 of 1309 (723197)
03-27-2014 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by vimesey
03-27-2014 8:42 AM


Re: Why are choices fair game?
The fundamentalist reply to that is:
"If you saw a young child convinced that it would be safe for them to run into a burning would you let them, knowing as you do the result of that action would be fiery death"
Fundamentalist believe that will happen to sinners and how can they stand by and let that happen. Sin genuinely means fiery death to a fundamentalist for sinners and how can they stand by and let that happen.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by vimesey, posted 03-27-2014 8:42 AM vimesey has not replied

Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 224 of 1309 (723200)
03-27-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
03-27-2014 8:58 AM


No Faith, we hate the sin not the sinner.
(What's good for the goose.......)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 03-27-2014 8:58 AM Faith has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(4)
Message 225 of 1309 (723201)
03-27-2014 3:57 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
03-27-2014 7:44 AM


Philosopher Twit - Redundant?
If you've got a huge scimitar at my neck and tell me I won't lose my head if I just say that homosexuality isn't a sin and it's right for gays to marry I'll forfeit my head.
Even though I find your philosophy lacking I would never take your head. I respect your intellect, if not your philosophy, and would not deprive this world of your views. You are very much an example of what our species has yet to overcome.
And, in case you missed it (on purpose) you can label people different from you as sinners and evil all you want. You can shout it from the street corner and decry it on the TV, whatever trips your trigger. What you may not do anymore is actively interfere with peoples rights. Further, you may not overstep those bounds society places on bigoted conduct in the marketplace. This is no longer your society but is all of ours.
In my opinion no Christian here has expressed the slightest disrespect to homosexuals.
Of course. You are blind to the fact that depriving a class of people those rights and privileges enjoyed freely by you and those of whom you approve is the very height of bigotry and disrespect, not just toward your targeted class but toward the entirety of the human condition.
Others have responded to your other points. No need to add more of the same.
But, I must admit to not having read the entirety of Tocqueville's tome which you have cited in this forum many times before. You like him. He and I parted ways many decades ago. It has been so long I cannot remember the details of those discussions in the student union but iirc they centered around Tocqueville's views on equality and liberty being different and some shit about inequality being good for a society. All I have left is my emotional remembrance of Tocqueville as a philosophical ass. Pretty much in keeping with my views on all philosophers. I do remember being in the minority with that view so I guess nothing much has changed. Still having no respect for philosophy as being good for anything but mental masturbation I don't think, regardless of any "history" expressed, I will revisit that rubbish. We all have our foibles.
My my, you do love YOUR rhetoric, don't you?
Pretty good, isn't it? I do love my communications abilities. Not always, to be sure, but in most cases my penned articulations leave little room to question my intent. I am just so damn good.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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