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Author Topic:   Is there a legitimate argument for design?
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 121 of 638 (720514)
02-24-2014 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 103 by Coyote
02-21-2014 4:27 PM


Re: science and life
If you want a spider, why are you thinking Corvairs!???
Here's a spider!
Here's a ferocious Dino!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Coyote, posted 02-21-2014 4:27 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Meddle
Member (Idle past 1270 days)
Posts: 179
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


(1)
Message 122 of 638 (720526)
02-24-2014 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by NoNukes
02-22-2014 11:24 PM


Re: non-science non-sense
As an interesting, if somewhat serious aside, it has been found that during reproduction, the newly synthesised cellular components are not always equally distributed between the two daughter cells. Under good growth conditions, one daughter cell retains the majority of the components of the parent cell, while the other daughter cell is predominately made up of newly formed components and exhibits increased rate of growth.
Conversely, under poor growth conditions cellular components are more equally distributed between cells, with both cells showing showing a reduced rate of growth.
Source
Edited by Malcolm, : No reason given.

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 123 of 638 (724394)
04-16-2014 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by dadman
02-21-2014 2:50 PM


Re: I'll return in a few days inorder to maybe
dadman, did you come back yet? I want to hear more from you. Looks like I'm one of the few people here that agrees with you lol.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 124 of 638 (724395)
04-16-2014 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Ed67
04-16-2014 10:57 PM


Re: I'll return in a few days inorder to maybe
If you agree with what he's saying, could you also translate it into English?

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Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 125 of 638 (724397)
04-17-2014 12:00 AM


RE: Is there a legitimate argument for design?
Yes, there is a legitimate argument for design.
I think the only argument ID needs (though the concept has many) is in the digital code built into the DNA/RNA.
The existence of this code is the downfall of abiogenesis, in my opinion.

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-17-2014 12:29 AM Ed67 has replied
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 04-17-2014 12:33 PM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 126 of 638 (724398)
04-17-2014 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by dadman
02-19-2014 9:17 PM


Re: For the last time
ok, dadman, I can't say I agree with this:
" it is now scientifically proven that all life is triune..."

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 Message 38 by dadman, posted 02-19-2014 9:17 PM dadman has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 127 of 638 (724400)
04-17-2014 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Ed67
04-17-2014 12:00 AM


RE: Is there a legitimate argument for design?
Perhaps you should learn the difference between an argument and an assertion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 12:00 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 2:38 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 129 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 2:40 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 128 of 638 (724422)
04-17-2014 2:38 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Dr Adequate
04-17-2014 12:29 AM


Sorry, I assumed the argument for the specified, precision code that is found in the DNA/RNA of even the simplest forms of life was already covered.
How can you guys honestly account for that happening in a completely non-intelligent way? There's more software packed into the nucleus of a cell than, well, I don't know. But lots.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-17-2014 12:29 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Pressie, posted 04-17-2014 7:54 AM Ed67 has replied
 Message 131 by Theodoric, posted 04-17-2014 9:38 AM Ed67 has not replied
 Message 133 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-17-2014 1:22 PM Ed67 has replied
 Message 134 by RAZD, posted 04-18-2014 8:07 AM Ed67 has replied

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 3329 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 129 of 638 (724423)
04-17-2014 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Dr Adequate
04-17-2014 12:29 AM


(sorry, having troubles posting...)
Edited by Ed67, : Accidental double post

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 130 of 638 (724439)
04-17-2014 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Ed67
04-17-2014 2:38 AM


Ed67 writes:
Sorry, I assumed the argument for the specified, precision code that is found in the DNA/RNA of even the simplest forms of life was already covered.
I followed the arguments on this thread and the guys who presented the arguments against 'specified, precision code' presented much more compelling evidence than those presented by the Creationist guys. At least the scientists presented peer-reviewed, scientific evidence. The anti-science brigade only presented arguments from incredubility and essays from religious sources.
Ed67 writes:
How can you guys honestly account for that happening in a completely non-intelligent way? There's more software packed into the nucleus of a cell than, well, I don't know. But lots.
Really? Please present the data. I've seen none from your side.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 2:38 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 131 of 638 (724453)
04-17-2014 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Ed67
04-17-2014 2:38 AM


There's more software packed into the nucleus of a cell than, well, I don't know. But lots.
Maybe you want to actually make an argument for this. Anyone can just spout random crap. That does not make it correct, or incorrect. We can not examine the claim unless you actually make an argument.
quote:
What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
-Christopher Hitchens)
Source

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 132 of 638 (724463)
04-17-2014 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Ed67
04-17-2014 12:00 AM


RE: Is there a legitimate argument for design?
Ed67 writes:
I think the only argument ID needs (though the concept has many) is in the digital code built into the DNA/RNA.
I would say that the molecule is the code. Are you suggesting that the code is "written on" the molecule by some designer? What would be the ink?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 12:00 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Ed67, posted 04-18-2014 8:50 AM ringo has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 133 of 638 (724465)
04-17-2014 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Ed67
04-17-2014 2:38 AM


Sorry, I assumed the argument for the specified, precision code that is found in the DNA/RNA of even the simplest forms of life was already covered.
How can you guys honestly account for that happening in a completely non-intelligent way? There's more software packed into the nucleus of a cell than, well, I don't know. But lots.
What is needed is not an argument for the code, but an argument for an invisible man making the DNA by magic. This is where creationists seem to fall down.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 2:38 AM Ed67 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Ed67, posted 04-18-2014 9:12 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 134 of 638 (724567)
04-18-2014 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by Ed67
04-17-2014 2:38 AM


Hi again Ed67
... as you are new here, some posting tips:
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Sorry, I assumed the argument for the specified, precision code that is found in the DNA/RNA of even the simplest forms of life was already covered.
Presentation of a concept is not covering an argument
Sorry, I assumed the argument for the specified, precision code that is found in the DNA/RNA of even the simplest forms of life was already covered.
You need to look at the conditions that lead to the formation of life and at the simplest form/s of self-replication first, not at the end product of 3.5 billion years of evolution.
Message 125: Yes, there is a legitimate argument for design.
You may want to read Is ID properly pursued?. One can argue that there is a legitimate argument for the earth being the center of the universe ... having an argument doesn't mean it is valid or based on evidence, as it could be based on ignorance or misunderstanding.
Message 125: I think the only argument ID needs (though the concept has many) is in the digital code built into the DNA/RNA.
First you need to review the way the universe is primed for the development of life: see Panspermic Pre-Biotic Molecules - Life's Building Blocks (Part I)
Then you need to review the many chemical paths to self-replication: see Self-Replicating Molecules - Life's Building Blocks (Part II) for some examples.
Message 125: The existence of this code is the downfall of abiogenesis, in my opinion.
Unfortunately, for you, opinion has not be observed to alter reality in any significant way.
But just to clarify things, do you then believe that this intelligence has not done anything since forming the first cell of life?
And that all life since has proceeded according to the process of evolution:
  • The process of evolution involves changes in the composition of hereditary traits, and changes to the frequency of their distributions within breeding populations from generation to generation, in response to ecological challenges and opportunities.
  • We do know that the earth did not possess cellular life forms 4.5 billion years ago, when it first formed, and we do know that cellular life existed 3.5 billion years ago, when the oldest fossil bearing rocks have been discovered, with evidence of fully formed cellular life (cyanobacteria). Therefore we know that at some point in between these times life began.
    Or do you then believe that, because you can't believe life could form spontaneously, that there has been all kinds of supernatural interferences, down to and including a world wide flood?
    Just curious.

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    This message is a reply to:
     Message 128 by Ed67, posted 04-17-2014 2:38 AM Ed67 has replied

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    Ed67
    Member (Idle past 3329 days)
    Posts: 159
    Joined: 04-14-2014


    Message 135 of 638 (724570)
    04-18-2014 8:37 AM
    Reply to: Message 130 by Pressie
    04-17-2014 7:54 AM


    "Please present the data."
    I thought, at this stage of the game, that you would have granted this as common knowledge.
    How many base-pair combinations are there in all the DNA in one single cell?
    Well, how long is the 'character string' (the DNA in a nucleus straightened out and put in a line)? Surely someone on this thread remembers about how long scientists say the DNA molecule is...
    So, how many digital 'signals' can be sent in the DNA molecules of a cell?
    Well, we'd have to know how many signals can be stored per unit length. But let me give you a clue; they're SMALLER than microscopic.
    So, there's the 'data' that supports my claim that there is "LOTS" of specified information stored in the DNA molecules.
    As for your comment:
    "At least the scientists presented peer-reviewed, scientific evidence.", ok I'm too lazy to read through this thread, but we'll see about that.
    This is a cool forum, guys, I'm glad I found it. But I see it's going to take a lot more work than I'm used to so bear with me...btw, what's with the drama queen? lol.
    Edited by Ed67, : single wording change

    This message is a reply to:
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