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Author Topic:   Why is evolution so controversial?
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 222 of 969 (724317)
04-15-2014 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
04-15-2014 9:43 PM


Re: Back to earth
Land animals got buried in the higher levels of the strata, that's the explanation and there's nothing wrong with it.
Well, it would occur to a sane person to wonder why the Triassic, which contains land animals aplenty, contains no echidnas, platypus, opossums, monito del montes, rat opossums, marsupial mice, dunnarts, Tasmanian devils, Tasmanian wolves, numbats, marsupial moles, bandicoots, rabbit-eared bandicoots, possums, cuscuses, gledero, ringtails, pygmy possums, ringtail possums, kangaroos, wallabies, koalas, wombats, noolbengers, elephant shrews, hedgehogs, gymnures, moles, desmans, tenrecs, golden moles, solenodons, shrews, flying lemurs, colugos, old world fruit bats, flying foxes, mouse-tailed bats, sac-winged bats, sheath-tailed bats, bull-dog bats, fish-eating bats, hollow-faced bats, false vampire bats, yellow-winged bats, horsehose bats, noseleaf bats, leaf-nosed bats, new world leaf-nosed bats, moustached bats, naked-backed bats, leaf-chinned bats, funnel-eared bats, smokey bats, disc-winged bats, sucker-footed bats, common bats, short-tailed bats, free-tailed bats, dwarf lemurs, mouse lemurs, sifakas, indri, woolly lemurs, aye-ayes, weasel lemurs, koala lemurs, lorises, pottoes, tarsiers, new world monkeys, marmosets, tamarins, old world monkeys, gibbons, humans, great apes, tree shrews, anteaters, sloths, armadillos, West Indian sloths, two-toed tree sloths, three-toed tree sloths, pangolins, scaly anteaters, aardvarks, pikas, hares, rabbits, mountain beavers, beavers, squirrels, chipmunks, marmots, prarie dogs, scaly-tailed squirrels, spring hares, rats, mice, voles, gerbils, hamsters, dormice, bamboo rats, African mole rats, birch mice, jumping mice, jerboas, pocket mice, kangaroo rats, pocket gophers, blind mole rats, old world porcupines, guinea pigs, capybaras, coypu, pacaranas, pacas, agoutis, chinchilla rats, spiny rats, chinchillas, viscachas, octodonts, degu, tuco tucos, cane rats, grasscutters, dassie rats, old world porcupines, agoutis, gundis, blesmols, African mole rats, dogs, wolves, foxes, jackals, bears, racoons, weasels, otters, skunks, badgers, mongooses, civets, genets, hyenas, aardwolves, cats, elephants, hyraxes, horses, zebras, asses, tapirs, rhinoceroses, camels, pigs, peccaries, javelinas, hippopotamuses, chevrotains, mouse deer, deer, giraffes, cattle, sheep, goats, or antelopes.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Faith, posted 04-15-2014 9:43 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 230 of 969 (724328)
04-16-2014 4:07 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Faith
04-16-2014 1:20 AM


Re: It's just a big convoluted mental construct
Well, actually it does occur to me to wonder why so many of some kinds of animals aren't in some of the strata, but I also wonder how well represented they are in the strata where they supposedly ARE found. I don't find this sort of information to be readily available. One thing about this peculiar "science" is that it gives out its information to the public very sparingly ...
As opposed to nonpeculiar sciences such as electromagnetism, where physicists come to your door with pamphlets and ask if they can come in and explain Maxwell's equations to you.
Ah well, I guess evolution is just so darn peculiar that scientists won't come round to your house and spoonfeed you information. You may have to look for it yourself. A google search on the term cenozoic fossil gets 615,000 hits, perhaps that would be a good place to start.
My point when I joined this thread was just to answer why evolution is so "uncontroversial," meaning so easily believed and the main answer is because it is pure mental stuff, pure "theory" and nothing but theory, intertwined theory, theory building on theory, nothing provable in any of it, as well as being presented in such a mystifying way that defeats actual thought many simply don't even try. In contrast to true science which is observable and available to all inquirers.
And again, I would point out that this, if true, would not explain why it's uncontroversial among scientists. It would make the thing completely inexplicable.
Watch. This is what you're doing:
* Why don't the police arrest me for singing in the shower? Because it's a class A felony.
* Why do nutritionists recommend eating vegetables? Because they are bad for you.
* Why does John always vote Democrat? Because he is a staunch Republican.
* Why do gourmets love chocolate cake? Because it tastes disgusting.
* Why do scientists agree with evolution? Because it is utterly unscientific.
These are not explanations, because they do not explain the thing to be explained. If true, they would make it deeply mysterious. They would add to the mystery. When we are told that John is a staunch Republican, then if we believe it we are further away from understanding why he always votes Democrat then we were to begin with.
And then there is that nonsense about the strata. It just keeps astonishing me that you can look at the surface of the earth which has beneath it layer upon layer of strata with fossils, say the Kaibab Plateau in the Grand Canyon area, that stretches for thousands of square miles in that area, look at it and not realize that all those layers were built up in the PAST and are over and done with, and now we have the surface of the earth on top of them all and the process has come to a stop. Long long ago. The land was tilted and folded here and there AFTER it all, the canyons were cut in "our" time, not in any time period before, and all the rest of the striking formations we see everywhere, including the Kaibab Plateau itself which was washed clean at the same time the Grand Canyon was cut. It all happened AFTER the layers were laid down, those supposed millions upon millions upon millions of years worth, and yet you can't see this obvious fact that makes the whole notion of reading past aeons in them utterly futile. But this is all a matter of SEEING, or interpreting, so you either see it or you don't. Some science.
Hey, Faith, remember how you don't know anything about geology?
It would be nice if you did find a rabbit in the Precambrian but as I realized here you aren't going to because obviously the Flood, which is the only viable alternative theory, didn't happen to sort things in such a way that a mammal would be found in the Precambrian. Hence like making flying pigs your criterion for falsifying the theory of gravity. MAYBE a rabbit could be found in the Triassic, maybe we should keep looking.
But this is asinine. Imagine someone who ascribes the motion of planets to magic pixies. "The theory of gravity is unfalsifiable" he says. "Not at all," I tell him, "it would be falsified by (for example) seeing hexagonal orbits. "But this is no test at all," he replies, "because obviously the magic pixies, which is the only viable alternative theory, don't happen to push planets in such a way that they have hexagonal orbits."
But his fantasies about magic pixies are not germane to whether we can test the theory of gravity.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Faith, posted 04-16-2014 1:20 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 263 of 969 (724393)
04-16-2014 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Faith
04-16-2014 8:23 PM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
SHOW ME THE LAYERS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. This is just another absurd piece of cobweb spinning. [...] And again I WANT TO SEE THOSE LAYERS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA. That's just another piece of the mental castlebguilding. GET REAL,.
I can still be surprised at how ignorant you are. I shouldn't be, but I am.
One layer has stuff that lives on dry land so you postulate a dry climate for that "era" but the one above it has stuff that forms normally in water, so you assume the sea rose so that that stuff could form,. THIS IS CRAZINESS.
Sure, it's CRAZINESS to say that the sea rose. Unless you say it rose so high as to cover even the highest mountains, and that it did so in just forty days. That makes perfect sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Faith, posted 04-16-2014 8:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 12:29 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 264 of 969 (724396)
04-16-2014 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Ed67
04-16-2014 9:46 PM


"Please, show us the peer reviewed papers where these claims are tested and supported." (sorry, I'm still old school with this quoting thing...)
The demand for evidence has never been a problem for people who were actually right. Why should an exception be made for creationists?
You mean prove to you that they've been run through the Evolutionary Crucible? lol.
You can tell that that's not what he means by the way that that's not what he says.
You're saying "I don't believe your hypothesis, and i won't consider believing it until the majority of my peers do."
You can tell that that's not what he's saying by the way that that's not what he's saying.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Ed67, posted 04-16-2014 9:46 PM Ed67 has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 267 of 969 (724403)
04-17-2014 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by Faith
04-17-2014 12:29 AM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
The point is that it's a major event for the sea to rise but the "Geologic Timetable" requires that it rose and fell who knows how many times to accommodate the silly idea that the contents of the rocks grew in place.
And if you have an argument against that, feel free to say what it is.
The argument for it is the physical evidence --- y'know, that stuff you know nothing about? That stuff.
AND I DON'T DOUBT THAT THERE ARE LAYERS AT THE BOTTOMN OF THE SEA SINCE I KNOW LAYERS FORM IN WATER. What I doubt is that they are like the Geo Column and that there is any way they would ever become part of the continents. AND THIS IS WHY I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM, see cores, see descriptions, see exactly what they really are, what life forms if any they contain and so on.
There's this thing called the Internet.
AND THEN I'D ALSO LIKE YOU TO EXPLAIN how the ocean bed is going to rise while the continents fall.
Huh?
Of course you have to stick the supposedly continuing Geologic Timetable out in the ocean because it clearly stopped forming on the continents about 4300 years ago.
We can in fact still see sediment being deposited on the continents. That's how we know what sediment formed on land looks like, remember? This is why we can identify the sediment in sedimentary rocks as having been formed by the same processes, remember? It's one of the points that destroys stupid fantasies ascribing all the sediments to a magic flood, remember?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 12:29 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 12:39 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 269 of 969 (724405)
04-17-2014 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Faith
04-17-2014 12:39 AM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
They have not stopped. This is why we can observe them going on.
How did this get turned into another "Faith Knows Fuck-All About Geology" thread anyway? Apart from anything else, the point has been made. By now there are probably tribesmen in Outer Mongolia who know that Faith knows fuck-all about geology. In the Amazon rainforest, when the Birono people wish to convey that another person is ignorant, they say "La mopu bexa Faith wahu geology" ("You know about as much as Faith does about geology"). There are alien civilizations where the only thing they know about Earth except for the words "Mostly Harmless" is that there's this person here called Faith who knows fuck-all about geology. What I'm trying to say here is that THE FACT HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED. You can stop now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 12:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 12:54 AM Dr Adequate has replied
 Message 271 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 1:02 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 272 of 969 (724409)
04-17-2014 1:18 AM
Reply to: Message 270 by Faith
04-17-2014 12:54 AM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
I googled "ocean floor sediment layers." Funny there's really nothing at all similar to the geo column down there. Perhaps you have other evidence?
There's layers of sediment, which, as you drill further down, compact into sedimentary rock. This bears a striking resemblance to sediment and sedimentary rock, because of being sediment and sedimentary rock.
And somewhere in there someone remarked that considering how old the earth supposedly is, a few billion years or so, there should be a lot more stuff on the ocean floors than there is.
Ah, that "someone" must be a creationist. They frequently drool out retarded nonsense about geology, due to being hopelessly ignorant of the subject. A top tip for using the Internet for research is to avoid creationist websites, as creationists are complete fucking morons. Maybe I should have mentioned that before, I guess I just assumed you knew.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 12:54 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 1:19 AM Dr Adequate has not replied
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 1:22 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 279 of 969 (724416)
04-17-2014 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Faith
04-17-2014 1:18 AM


Kind of a weird idea anyway that the geo column should stop forming on the land and take up where it left off at the bottom of the ocean.
I would have characterized this idea of yours, like the rest of your ideas about geology, as "insane" rather than "weird".
And again there is no reason for it to ever stop forming on the land anyway
That's why it didn't.
It got laid down and then it stopped getting laid down when the Flood stopped
If sediment stopped being deposited after the Flood, then why can we still observe sediment being deposited?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 1:18 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 281 of 969 (724418)
04-17-2014 1:26 AM
Reply to: Message 277 by Faith
04-17-2014 1:22 AM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
I don't see anything like the sedimentary layers of the geo column.
Perhaps you could elaborate on what you're drooling about?
Layers of sediment and sedimentary rock, to me, bear a striking resemblance to layers of sediment and sedimentary rock, because of being layers of sediment and sedimentary rock, which are like layers of sediment and sedimentary rock.
---
(I am overlooking your pig-ignorant misuse of the phrase "geological column", because one has to make allowances for your deep ignorance of everything you ever talk about.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 1:22 AM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 303 of 969 (724464)
04-17-2014 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Faith
04-17-2014 2:56 AM


Re: Geo Timescale no longer telling time
I don't know why you are all insisting the sediments in the ocean are at all like the geo column when they clearly aren't. I produced the links that show that they aren't. All you've done is assert that they are. There's no similar layering and I can't find any evidence of fossilization going on in anything I looked at either.
More problems with that idea though: Shouldn't any continuation of the Geologic Column / Geologic Timetable be producing the most recent life forms, adding on to the very top of the timescale? But at the bottom of the ocean you're just going to get marine life, right? So it's like you're starting all over building up this geo column, you're NOT continuing the Geo Timescale at the bottom of the ocean at all.
It SHOULD continue just as the strata are normally laid down, at the top of the existing last layer. Not in new basins, not at the bottom of the sea.
This is simply not the Geologic Column / Timetable.
The Geologic Timescale is over and done with, kaput. Because it never existed in the first place. It's a fiction imposed upon a stack of sediments containing fossilized dead things, that accumulated over a short period of time. Then it stopped accumulating. It's over with.
I also wonder why the existing geologic column isn't found in the oceans. Isn't that what core bores should show, some collection of the familiar layers we call the Geo Timescale? While all that was building up on the land why not also at the bottom of the sea? That's more of an academic question, I'm just wondering.
ABE: But whoever that was who pointed out that after a few billion years the ocean floors ought to have more to show for it is quite right.
Hey, Faith, remember how you don't know anything about geology?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 2:56 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 4:14 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 306 of 969 (724470)
04-17-2014 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Faith
04-17-2014 1:38 PM


Who Broke Faith?
I've given my reasoning, you should answer it. If you look around the world you SEE that it has come to an end. Tanypteryx says well sure, that's because it's now eroding. But the question is why, what made it stop, what made it start eroding? It stacks up for hundreds of millions of years and then stops. Odd that.
1) Location problem: Now we're told that it is continuing, but not where it originally accumulated. No, it's continuing at the bottom of the oceans. Which of course makes no sense if we're talking about the sequential record of time on earth during which its flora and fauna evolved from primitive to modern forms. If that's what it's about it makes no sense for it to stop accumulating where it's accumulated for supposedly hundreds of millions of years and start all over again at the bottom of the sea.
2) And what happened to the Principle of Superposition in this scenario? That only makes sense when the strata continue to accumulate on top of one another, each new layer representing a more recent time period with more recently evolved life forms. Having it continue at the bottom of the ocean blows that one out of the water as it were.
3) Fossil Record? At the bottom of the sea it can only accumulate MARINE fossils, if indeed anything gets fossilized at all under those circumstances. "MODERN" marine life of course, but still marine life, the primitive stuff, not the highly evolved stuff. According to the theory I mean.
4) Time factor. After a few billion years the ocean floors SHOULD have accumulated quite a bit more than they seem to have done.
5) the sediments accumulating at the bottom of the ocean really don't look like those in the geologic column. The geo column is limestones and sandstones and shales (oh my), but is that what is continuing at the bottom of the oceans?
Hey, Faith, remember how you don't know anything about geology?
This is gibberish. It is madness. It is insanity. It does not even rise to the dignity of error; it is a random jumble of words without meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 304 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 1:38 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 316 of 969 (724480)
04-17-2014 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by Faith
04-17-2014 3:35 PM


Re: Geo Timescale no longer telling time
I see, so what happened is that what accumulated over a few billion years on the sea floors has been subducted and burned up and that's that. So I guess that will also happen to the sediments accumulating on the sea floors now, so that not only are they irrelevant to the Geologic Timetable because they aren't building ON that Geologic Timetable, and because they are only collecting marine life anyway, which may or may not be getting fossilized, but they are disappearing under the continents anyway, making the whole idea that they represent the continuation of the Geologic Timescale a terrific joke.
See post #306.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 3:35 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(4)
Message 330 of 969 (724495)
04-17-2014 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by Faith
04-17-2014 4:14 PM


Re: Geo Timescale no longer telling time
Who says I don't know anything about Geology?
I do. I know this to be a fact because of reading your posts. They are gibberish.
Let me explain what I mean. Take this piece of garbage:
And what happened to the Principle of Superposition in this scenario? That only makes sense when the strata continue to accumulate on top of one another, each new layer representing a more recent time period with more recently evolved life forms. Having it continue at the bottom of the ocean blows that one out of the water as it were.
What shall I compare this to? Suppose someone were to say "And if there are kangaroos in Australia, what happens to the Law of Gravity in this scenario? Having kangaroos in Australia blows that one out of the water as it were."
It would be easy to see that that person was a halfwit. It would be easy to see that the halfwit was making a halfwitted mistake. One might even guess that this mistake involved being swinishly ignorant about what the Law of Gravity is.
But that's as far as one can go. A mentally normal person cannot reconstruct the mistake being made in the mind of the moron; and the moron has not expressed it. All there is to say about it is that it is garbage, it is insanity, it is nonsense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 4:14 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 336 of 969 (724505)
04-17-2014 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Faith
04-17-2014 5:33 PM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
I'll try to be clearer. I know sediments get deposited in the oceans and elsewhere, and get layered too, but not where the Geo Column was deposited, certainly not building Recent Time periods on top of it, and for the most part nowhere near the same scale, and not to the same depth, and not the same sediments and in other words not like the Geo Column or the Geo Timetable that is imposed on it
You've really gone full-on, balls-out, batshit crazy, haven't you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 5:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 339 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 6:02 PM Dr Adequate has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 306 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 342 of 969 (724513)
04-17-2014 6:37 PM
Reply to: Message 339 by Faith
04-17-2014 6:02 PM


Re: The "Geologic Timescale" does not exist
You're so cute.
Faith said something true!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 339 by Faith, posted 04-17-2014 6:02 PM Faith has not replied

  
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