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Author | Topic: Why is evolution so controversial? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
When I started my General Medicine course some three years ago, I was surprised to discover just how modest a role Evolution plays in medical school, aside from an introduction level treatment (1st year) it only received passing mentions for the most part. I expected it to be given as a subject on its own, but lo and behold that is not the case in medical school! It doesn't look like Medicine is that into Evolution! I think that medicine is concerned about the current state of the human body, not how said body came to be as it is.
Even more shocking was my biology professor's reply when I asked her to elaborate on some detail of evolution during a class, she told me not to trouble myself with such question that will only distract the lesson, and then she added evolution is contentious anyway. "Evolution is contentious!" From the lips of a research professor! Again, evolution is at least largely irrelevant to medical procedure. Contentious? Yes, it is socially contentious, as per Percy's comment in message 4. There is also scientific contention concerning details in the theory of (biological) evolution. That is not to say that there is not broad scientific agreement (consensus) about the bulk of the theory. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Taq writes: Bolder-dash writes: Like these guys you mean: That is not what I meant since that is not what I said. Here it is again. You count the number of scientists who reject evolution, have a degree in the biological sciences, and whose first name is Steve (or a derivation thereof, such as Estaban or Stephanie). I will do the same for the number of scientists who do accept evolution as the best explanation for biodiveristy in biology. Reference links: The main "Project Steve" page - Project Steve | National Center for Science Education The "Steve" list - List of Steves | National Center for Science Education You are implying (at the minimum) that all the scientists of the "Project Steve" list have biology related degrees. Not all do, and that was what Bolder-dash was pointing out in message 152. The "Project Steve" list (see main page) seems to require some variety of science degree but not a biology related degree (although many do indeed have biology related degrees). I repeat one of Bolder-dash's examples:
quote: I think that Bolder-dash had indeed made a valid point, to counter anyone who promotes the "Project Steve" list as being made up of only biological scientists. MooseProfessor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
Things are totally off-topic, but I can't let this pass:
Tanypteryx writes: Faith writes: Oh and I keep forgetting to state the main point about the Kaibab plateau, which is that people keep saying the same processes that formed the strata are continuing as they always have, but the huge expanse of the Kaibab alone should tell you it's not going on as it always has. Where on earth is anything like that continuing on such a scale? And consider also those diagrams of the different strata of North America that HBD posted on a thread a while back, strata that extend across the entire continent. Layer after layer extending for vast distances. That is NOT going on anywhere today. The accumulations of sediment you can point to here and there are paltry little collections by comparison. Have you ever looked at a globe of the earth? There is this huge area that we call the Pacific Ocean. Sediment is being deposited there in an area that is many times the size of the Kaibab, in square miles. Over millions of years those sediments will become layered strata. Pretty damn bogus reply. I can't see AT ALL how the deep ocean basin deposition model really has anything to do with any with the sediment deposition of the Grand Canyon area rocks. At best, MAYBE the bottom-most pre-Cambrian rocks that are now high grade metamorphics MIGHT have some sort of deep ocean origins. MAYBE. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
From 400:
Percy writes: Most sedimentary layers are marine, so if the marine layers formed from material washing off of the land mass then most of the material on the land mass must have been marine. What??? This is so wacked, I don’t know what to say. Or is that some sort of paraphrasing of a Faith statement? The rest of the content is pretty good, although your writing style seems to have slipped down to my level (OSLT). From 412:
Percy writes: Of course they were once ocean floor. Since they're composed of the same type of marine sediments we see being deposited today on ocean floors, and since these marine sediments contain marine fossils, of course they were once ocean floor. Well, ocean floor sedimentation is a subset of marine sedimentation, but there is also other marine sedimentation. Continental shelf deposition is marine, but not ocean floor. Sea transgressions onto the continents deposition (which actually includes the previous) is not ocean floor.
Most sedimentary layers are marine and they contain marine fossils. So please describe your evidence that these marine layers and fossils accumulated on land? Well, most of them were deposited on the continent (land). You think it was deposited in the ocean basin and then somehow welded to the continent? That welding does happen, but is relatively minor. MooseProfessor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
...the GEOLOGIC TIMETABLE... It's a timeline from the origin of the Earth, to the present. Anything geological is tied to the timeline. New geology? The timeline has extended. Moose
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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If we limit this to scientists with doctorates and published papers in a field of biology, way less than 1% voice claim that the theory of evolution is completely wrong, and that ID/creationism is a better explanation. If we used the criteria above, my guesstimate would be 0.005% of scientists fit those criteria. I only know of 2: Behe and Kurt Wise. Except my understanding is that Michael Behe accepts the bulk of old Earth evolution, including man and the (other) great apes having a common ancestor. I got this from Kennith Miller's "Finding Darwin's God". I consider Behe to be a theistic evolutionist. Kurt Wise is sort of on record as conceding that the evidence supports old Earth evolution, but that he is a young Earth creationist because of what the Bible says. But this is not the sort of information you find at creationist site. My relevant topics (10 years+ old):
Kenneth R. Miller - Finding Darwin's God Kurt Wise - A YAC and an old earth evolutionist? Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : Change subtitle.
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Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
References (further links there):
Encyclopedia of American Loons: #8: Douglas AxeEncyclopedia of American Loons: #140: Ann Gauger Aparently Axe has done some minor publishing in minor but real journals. I don't know about Gauger. Ah, heck - I'll quote the whole aboves (may be some unclickable links, go to the source page if you care):
quote: quote: Offhand, both seem to be in the "Michael Behe school". Another old topic of mine, not directly related to this message, but relating to the topic:
Adventist Church - Geoscience Research Institute Not a debate topic, but I put a bunch of (probably no longer valid) links there. Anyway, the Geoscience Research Institute is young Earth creationist, but they do seem to be rather in touch with worldly reality. There is (or at least used to be) a lot of better than average YEC thought there. Try Geoscience Research Institute | Home as a starting point for further exploration. Moose
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