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Author Topic:   Is there a legitimate argument for design?
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 211 of 638 (725132)
04-24-2014 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Ed67
04-24-2014 10:01 AM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Ed67 writes:

Ringo, do you really not understand that the code embedded in the DNA is the instructions for building the cell?


There is nothing "embedded" in the molecule; there is nothing "written on" the molecule; there is only the structure of the molecule. Cells are not built according to "instructions"; they are built by ordinary chemical reactions, a set of chemical reactions that is specific to the DNA molecule but that works on exactly the same principles as any other reaction.

Ed67 writes:

A little more attention in high school biology would have prevented your misunderstanding...


I don't like to mention it because it was a long time ago and I've never worked in the field but I do have a Bachelor of Science degree.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 10:01 AM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 2:56 PM ringo has responded

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 1777 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 212 of 638 (725168)
04-24-2014 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ringo
04-24-2014 11:56 AM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
ringo writes:

There is nothing "embedded" in the molecule; there is nothing "written on" the molecule; there is only the structure of the molecule.

Someone disagrees:

quote:
James Watson and Francis Crick's insight that genetic information is EMBEDDED in the physical structure of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) made possible a new understanding of heredity at the molecular level and opened up new avenues of research into the genetic control of essential biological processes, most importantly the synthesis of proteins.

http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/...trieve/Narrative/SC/p-nid/153

Did you miss that part in school?

Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ringo, posted 04-24-2014 11:56 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by ringo, posted 04-24-2014 3:05 PM Ed67 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 213 of 638 (725171)
04-24-2014 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 212 by Ed67
04-24-2014 2:56 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Ed67 writes:

ringo writes:

There is nothing "embedded" in the molecule; there is nothing "written on" the molecule; there is only the structure of the molecule.


Someone disagrees:

No. They don't. Just because somebody uses the word "embedded" doesn't mean that they think there is anything "extra".

I gave the example elsewhere of animal tracks in the snow. The tracks are "embedded" in he snow, if you must use that word, but they are not separate from the snow. They are just part of the shape of the snow. And they can provide "information" to a hunter even though they weren't put there by any intelligence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 2:56 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:39 PM ringo has responded

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 1777 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 214 of 638 (725183)
04-24-2014 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by ringo
04-24-2014 3:05 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
ringo writes:

Ed67 writes:
ringo writes:
There is nothing "embedded" in the molecule; there is nothing "written on" the molecule; there is only the structure of the molecule.

Someone disagrees:

No. They don't. Just because somebody uses the word "embedded" doesn't mean that they think there is anything "extra".

quote:
Watson and Crick were the first to realize that the seemingly random sequence of the four bases in DNA formed a code which specified the order of the twenty amino acids that make up most proteins.
http://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/...trieve/Narrative/SC/p-nid/153
I'd say that's a little extra

Edited by Ed67, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by ringo, posted 04-24-2014 3:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by ringo, posted 04-24-2014 3:41 PM Ed67 has responded
 Message 217 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 4:01 PM Ed67 has responded
 Message 219 by frako, posted 04-24-2014 4:52 PM Ed67 has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 215 of 638 (725184)
04-24-2014 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:39 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Are you just posting random quotes now? How does what you quoted even address what I said?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:39 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 4:00 PM ringo has responded

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 1777 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 216 of 638 (725189)
04-24-2014 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 215 by ringo
04-24-2014 3:41 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Here, I'll make it easy for you- I'll put the quotes together:

quote:
James Watson and Francis Crick's insight that genetic information is embedded in the physical structure of deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) made possible a new understanding of heredity at the molecular level and opened up new avenues of research into the genetic control of essential biological processes, most importantly the synthesis of proteins. Watson and Crick were the first to realize that the seemingly random sequence of the four bases in DNA formed a code which specified the order of the twenty amino acids that make up most proteins. (It was Watson and Crick who drew up the list of twenty from dispersed and confused information in the biochemical literature.)

Did you happen to notice what they discovered?
The CODE for building proteins necessary for life. In a molecule. Now you can't say that about salt.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by ringo, posted 04-24-2014 3:41 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 4:02 PM Ed67 has not yet responded
 Message 231 by Larni, posted 04-25-2014 4:48 AM Ed67 has not yet responded
 Message 241 by ringo, posted 04-25-2014 12:58 PM Ed67 has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 217 of 638 (725190)
04-24-2014 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:39 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
But it's not extra, that's the point that ringo's trying to make. You couldn't, for example, remove the "information" in the DNA but leave the chemistry, or remove the chemistry but leave the "information".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:39 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:33 PM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 264 by Ed67, posted 04-26-2014 10:50 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 218 of 638 (725191)
04-24-2014 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Ed67
04-24-2014 4:00 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
The CODE for building proteins necessary for life. In a molecule. Now you can't say that about salt.

But you could, if you, wanted to, and with equal justification, say that sodium chloride contains the "code" for building cubic crystals.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 4:00 PM Ed67 has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2903
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 219 of 638 (725197)
04-24-2014 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Ed67
04-24-2014 3:39 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
wohooo Defining the Genetic Coding Problem, 1954-1957 its been 60 years we made some progress in that time.

Its not a code its just chemical reactions, its like saying magnesium and h2o contain a code to produce magnesium hydroxide and hydrogen gas

p.s.

How do you think this genetic code of yours works? explain in as much detail as you can.

Edited by frako, : No reason given.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 3:39 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 6:22 PM frako has responded

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 1777 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 220 of 638 (725212)
04-24-2014 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by frako
04-24-2014 4:52 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
frako writes:

wohooo Defining the Genetic Coding Problem, 1954-1957 its been 60 years we made some progress in that time.

So you disagree with Watson and Crick?
At what point in the last 60 years have scientists decided that is NOT a code?

How do you think this genetic code of yours works? explain in as much detail as you can.

Go back to high school. I'm not your grade 12 biology teacher. It was all there in high school.
This is not "MY" code, or an original idea. the lengths of stupidity you are willing to go to in order to deflect from a point that bruises your world view.

Poor little guy...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by frako, posted 04-24-2014 4:52 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by frako, posted 04-24-2014 6:39 PM Ed67 has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2903
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 221 of 638 (725217)
04-24-2014 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Ed67
04-24-2014 6:22 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Yea a code, im gonna go and use the h2o code do stave off dehydration.

Ok mr professor how do you think your code works i asked you 3 times now. Please provide a detailed explenation of how you think this code works to make proteins. Who reads the code, who then decides to act on the information provided by that code??

No one is the anwser cause there is no sentient being there to read the code. to make a protein A polymerase binds to the dna and splits it apart because thats the chemical reaction you get when those 2 things interact. It then syntesises a mRNA from the chemichal reactions that take place. Than mRNA strand leaves the nucleus and reacts with a ribosome. The protein is then built by chemical reactions oncly certein molecules can react with the part of mRNA that is reacting with the ribosome when they do the ribosome moves up 3 spaces and only certrtein molecules can react with that part of the mRNA molecule slowly building up the protein when the end is reached a water molecule is added the protein brakes free, and the rest falls apart.

Where do you see the code?

at best you can call DNA a template, but there is no information code its just chemical reactions.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 6:22 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:29 PM frako has responded

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 1777 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 222 of 638 (725220)
04-24-2014 7:29 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by frako
04-24-2014 6:39 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
frako writes:

Where do you see the code?

The same place Watson and Crick saw it, silly. This is getting really pathetic, dude. You can't even understand the basic function of DNA.

I'm not going to entertain any more 'stupid' questions like "where is the code?".

You could ask ringo; I just schooled him in the DNA code...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by frako, posted 04-24-2014 6:39 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-24-2014 8:50 PM Ed67 has responded
 Message 230 by frako, posted 04-25-2014 2:09 AM Ed67 has not yet responded
 Message 242 by ringo, posted 04-25-2014 1:08 PM Ed67 has not yet responded

  
Ed67
Member (Idle past 1777 days)
Posts: 159
Joined: 04-14-2014


Message 223 of 638 (725221)
04-24-2014 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Dr Adequate
04-24-2014 4:01 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
DA writes:

But it's not extra, that's the point that ringo's trying to make. You couldn't, for example, remove the "information" in the DNA but leave the chemistry, or remove the chemistry but leave the "information".

Yes. Remarkably elegant, don't you think?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 4:01 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-24-2014 9:14 PM Ed67 has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 224 of 638 (725228)
04-24-2014 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Ed67
04-24-2014 7:29 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
frako writes:

Where do you see the code?


The same place Watson and Crick saw it, silly.

I don't believe you. And you didn't actually answer the question. Where, exactly, did you see it?

And how do you know that this is where Crick saw it, specifically?

You've quoted them using the same words as you, but you seem to be using them in a completely different manner. I honestly don't see you saying the same thing as them.

If you could be more specific about how you think you're saying the same things, then you might make more sense.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:29 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 11:55 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16107
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 225 of 638 (725231)
04-24-2014 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Ed67
04-24-2014 7:33 PM


Re: What does the CODE in DNA do?
Yes.

If you know that, perhaps you could talk less bollocks about this subject.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Ed67, posted 04-24-2014 7:33 PM Ed67 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 229 by Ed67, posted 04-25-2014 1:25 AM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
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