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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2416 of 5179 (720110)
02-20-2014 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 2400 by Phat
02-19-2014 11:53 AM


Re: Some more data
Phat writes:
Disarming the citizens would make it easier for a coup to take place, right?
Based on the myth that it was an armed populace that won the American Revolution?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2400 by Phat, posted 02-19-2014 11:53 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
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1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


(1)
Message 2417 of 5179 (720163)
02-20-2014 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 2372 by Theodoric
02-18-2014 5:53 PM


Re: Prediction
fact checking asshole.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(4)
Message 2418 of 5179 (720169)
02-20-2014 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 2411 by RAZD
02-19-2014 1:56 PM


Re: which coup do you mean?
You mean like the one going on now as billionaires buy up congress and get laws passed to get them even more entrenched in controlling the state and federal governments ... all while they keep you distracted about dems "wanting to take your guns" and "national security" and reducing citizen rights (patriot act, citizen's united, ALEC laws, etc) -- that one?
Reminds me of the classic Medeival trope where the puppet play distracts unwary passer-by's while the pickpocket steals their money. Conservatives know their base, and they are playing them like a violin. Want to give massive tax breaks and subsidies to billionaires? Distract your base by drumming up a fake controversy over gun control. Want to keep health care costs rising to make the rich even richer? BENGHAZI!@!!!!!!!!!111!!

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 2419 of 5179 (720173)
02-20-2014 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2416 by ringo
02-20-2014 11:19 AM


Re: Some more data
Well, that IS the story we are fed time and again in school and "documentaries" on TV. The whole basis of American Pride is that "we the people" defeated the evil redcoats. A bunch of farmers with muskets ran around the forests of Maine guerrilla style murdering The Brits.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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 Message 2420 by Taq, posted 02-20-2014 4:39 PM hooah212002 has replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


(1)
Message 2420 of 5179 (720178)
02-20-2014 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2419 by hooah212002
02-20-2014 4:21 PM


Re: Some more data
Well, that IS the story we are fed time and again in school and "documentaries" on TV. The whole basis of American Pride is that "we the people" defeated the evil redcoats. A bunch of farmers with muskets ran around the forests of Maine guerrilla style murdering The Brits.
In 200 years the children will be taught how farmers brought their Tomahawk missiles to the battle field and defeated evil Middle Eastern despots.
One of the more interesting evolution of myths is the ride of Paul Revere. Ask most people what Paul Revere shouted as he made the ride and they will say, "The British are coming". That isn't true. He yelled, "The Regulars are coming". The colonists considered themselves to be British, not fighting a war against the British. It is no different than both the North and South calling themselves American during the Civil War.
Also, the plight of indigenous Americans really does shoot a hole in the whole idea of needing to be armed in order to keep your government honest. Native Americans were armed, and yet they were still dispossessed of their land, rights, and heritage by the US Government.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2419 by hooah212002, posted 02-20-2014 4:21 PM hooah212002 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2421 by dronestar, posted 02-20-2014 5:04 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 2422 by hooah212002, posted 02-20-2014 7:28 PM Taq has not replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 2421 of 5179 (720183)
02-20-2014 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 2420 by Taq
02-20-2014 4:39 PM


Re: Some more data
(Sorry about the off-topic post)
Funny, speaking of myths and re-imagining history, I just read an article this morn about the true story of Bunker Hill. Interesting . . .
The True Story of the Battle of Bunker Hill
The True Story of the Battle of Bunker Hill | History| Smithsonian Magazine
Also, "Misremembering America’s Wars, 2003-2053" is about how america's Department of Defense is whitewashing america's history by creating a "public service" website commemorating the 50th anniversary of the Vietnam War.
Zcomm » Misremembering America’s Wars, 2003-2053
The 1%ers are winning. 99%ers don't have a clue.

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 2422 of 5179 (720197)
02-20-2014 7:28 PM
Reply to: Message 2420 by Taq
02-20-2014 4:39 PM


Re: Some more data
In 200 years the children will be taught how farmers brought their Tomahawk missiles to the battle field and defeated evil Middle Eastern despots.
And to an extent that will still be true. however, my point was that the fantasy about the revolution was that our side was just a mish mash of country folk that kissed their spouse goodbye, musket in hand (their huntin' gun that they just used that mornin' to shoot a deer) and walked onto the battlefield. It was the fact that they were armed that allowed them to rebel successfully.
One of the more interesting evolution of myths is the ride of Paul Revere. Ask most people what Paul Revere shouted as he made the ride and they will say, "The British are coming". That isn't true. He yelled, "The Regulars are coming". The colonists considered themselves to be British, not fighting a war against the British. It is no different than both the North and South calling themselves American during the Civil War.
[off topic]Indeed. The actual history varies greatly from the history American kids are taught in high school. However, I am unsure if it really differs from how other countries view history. Any insight from a German on how Hitler is discussed? Maybe someone from Japan on their role in WWII? American history ALWAYS paints us as the good guys. How many people think we were all peachy keen with the Native Americans? [/off topic]
Also, the plight of indigenous Americans really does shoot a hole in the whole idea of needing to be armed in order to keep your government honest. Native Americans were armed, and yet they were still dispossessed of their land, rights, and heritage by the US Government.
My history is as bad as I claim it to be, but think about who armed them. it should be no coincidence that even though they were armed, it was insufficient. The same way that even if every tom dick and harry American has a deer shooter, it won't matter one iota when/if Uncle Sam decides it's time your freedoms are toast and diplomacy isn't sufficient. Is your little ruger going to take down a Sherman tank? Maybe your AR-15 can dent that Black Hawk. How is your M9 going to pierce that soldiers kevlar?

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(2)
Message 2423 of 5179 (720237)
02-21-2014 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 2409 by New Cat's Eye
02-19-2014 1:24 PM


Re: Some more data
Irrational fear.?
Like vertigo or a fear of spiders or something like that?
It still seems considerably more likely that those who advocate gun controls do so because they genuinely believe guns to be dangerous and requiring of control on that basis. Now it’s possible that those who consider guns dangerous enough to warrant controls are wrong about that. You are free to attempt make an evidence based case for the ‘guns are perfectly safe without extra controls’ position if you can?
But I put it to you that these silly attempts of yours to trivialise positions as borne from mere dislike or irrational fear are themselves borne from your own inability to make any sort of evidence based or reasoned case in support of your own position.
It’s easier for you to start making hyperbolic accusations about people having ulterior motives or talking about saving children as a guise than to actually address the very rational concerns people have about gun use.
CS writes:
In my experience, the dislike for guns is based on an irrational fear of them.
In my experience pro-gunsters irrationally see guns as iconic emblems of personal liberty despite the fact that this thinking has very little relevance in modern Western societies.

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 2424 of 5179 (720240)
02-21-2014 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 2410 by New Cat's Eye
02-19-2014 1:26 PM


Re: Some more data
Straggler writes:
So the "ultimate goal" of those who advocate gun controls is.....what?
CS writes:
Not "those who advocate gun controls" in general. We were talking about those Moms and Mayors that were mentioned in the article.
They're the ones propping up kids to hide that they just don't want people to have guns.
But why don't they (these moms and mayors) want people to have guns? What is their reasoning? You have talked about an "ultimate goal" but why would anyone want gun control as an "ultimate goal" in and of itself?
So far you've claimed "dislike" of guns but as I've pointed out that could equally apply to anchovies. Baseless personal "dislike" seems an unlikely root cause for seeking to impose legal restrictions on things.
You have also claimed "irrational fear". But again - Some sort of phobic reaction to guns seems far less likely than the stated criteria of considering guns dangerous.
Why don't you confront the actual concerns actual people actually have and the basis for these concerns rather than pretending that there is some sort of "despicable" plot at hand?

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 Message 2410 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-19-2014 1:26 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(5)
Message 2425 of 5179 (720612)
02-25-2014 11:13 AM


And the Darwin Award goes to ...
Man shoots himself in the head while demonstrating gun safety
quote:
The victim’s live-in girlfriend told deputies that her 36-year-old boyfriend had been demonstrating the safety of his three handguns by holding them to his head and pulling the trigger.
The third gun fired and he was struck in the head.
The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. His name was not immediately released.
Three children were also in the house at the time of the shooting, but sheriff’s officials say none of them were injured or witnessed the shooting. Authorities said the kids were not the victims’ biological children.
Darwin Award anyone?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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Replies to this message:
 Message 2426 by 1.61803, posted 02-25-2014 11:35 AM RAZD has replied

1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 2426 of 5179 (720617)
02-25-2014 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 2425 by RAZD
02-25-2014 11:13 AM


Re: And the Darwin Award goes to ...
Dont forget this little jewel.
DEA agent shoots self in leg during gun safety at school.
Edited by 1.61803, : No reason given.

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2425 by RAZD, posted 02-25-2014 11:13 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2427 of 5179 (720618)
02-25-2014 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 2426 by 1.61803
02-25-2014 11:35 AM


Re: And the Darwin Award goes to ...
ya there is a bullet in the chamber, so removing the clip does not make it safe...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2426 by 1.61803, posted 02-25-2014 11:35 AM 1.61803 has seen this message but not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 2428 of 5179 (725633)
04-29-2014 8:29 PM


Responsible Gun Owner News
Seems a gun firm has developed a gun that only fires for its owner, thus making it useless to other people such as burglars and toddlers.
The CEO has been receiving death threats and pressure has forced gun shows to stop selling it.
The Oak Tree Gun Club near Los Angeles had agreed to sell the Armatix smart pistol until Calguns.net, a forum of second-amendment rights advocates, found out about the news.
I have no qualms with the idea of personally and professionally leveling the life of someone who has attempted to profit from disarming me and my fellow Americans, one comment said.
'Cos nothing disarms people like selling them guns at a gun show, right?
It seems as though the gun nuts have been defending gun deaths so long that they now actually think that the Second Amendment says that there shall be as many gun deaths as possible. Anything involving fewer gun deaths now elicits a knee-jerk reaction and a twitchy trigger finger. Weird, isn't it?
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 2432 by Jon, posted 04-30-2014 10:33 PM Dr Adequate has replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 2429 of 5179 (725667)
04-30-2014 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 2428 by Dr Adequate
04-29-2014 8:29 PM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner News
belongs on Loony Of The Week thread ...
Is "leveling the life of someone" a new euphemism for assassination?
Sounds like terrorism to me. Homegrown.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2428 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-29-2014 8:29 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 2430 of 5179 (725674)
04-30-2014 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 2428 by Dr Adequate
04-29-2014 8:29 PM


Re: Responsible Gun Owner News
quote:
... the Armatix smart pistol....
Instead of being smart enough to recognize the shooter, I wish it was smart enough to recognize the shootee.
(Identification: toddler. Nope, ain't gonna shoot that.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2428 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-29-2014 8:29 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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