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Author Topic:   What if Jesus and Satan were real?
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 271 of 591 (726098)
05-06-2014 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ringo
05-06-2014 11:36 AM


Re: Satan
ringo writes:

How do you know you can trust God

Blue writes:

You learn to trust God via prayer/revelation.

ringo writes:

That's a glib answer but it doesn't work. Why would you pray to a god unless you thought you could trust him?

I believe I can trust God because of the way in which God has revealed itself to me. Please reference post 267.

You do realize trust is always based on faith. The idea that your observations give you security is merely faith. What if the interpretation of the observations is wrong? There is always a point at which you're applying faith in trust. Yes, observations do help reduce the leap of faith being applied, which is why I have come to trust God. Please reference post 267.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:36 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:51 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 591 (726099)
05-06-2014 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Coragyps
05-06-2014 2:25 PM


Re: Satan
I disagree that it is unknown based on observations which are revelations.

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 2:25 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 273 of 591 (726101)
05-06-2014 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by New Cat's Eye
05-06-2014 2:26 PM


Re: Satan
I do think anything is possible. I disagree with the ideology of science being the only method for discovering reality. We all interpret data, and based on our desires we form our conclusions. This is true for scientists as well, there is always competing theories.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-06-2014 2:26 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 3:05 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 591 (726102)
05-06-2014 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 2:37 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
MFFJM2 writes:

I didn't write that you were fearful of my response. I wrote that you shouldn't live in fear, and that was specifically directed at the kind of deity you assert exists, and that you feel the need to worship.

I don't praise God because of fear. I praise God because I believe God exists.

MFFJM2 writes:

Your post had a point..? Well, then I most certainly did miss it. It appeared that you were rambling about many things, with very loose connectivity to them. Could we perhaps return to the thread..?

I will return to our conversation shortly.

MFFJM2 writes:

Why don't you try answering the questions I posed, and which you've done your best to ignore..?

OK.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 2:37 PM MFFJM2 has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 275 of 591 (726104)
05-06-2014 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by ringo
05-06-2014 11:40 AM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:

Weather or not the law is in their hearts is just a point that even gentiles will follow the law not knowing it persay.

ring writes:

What Romans 2:14-15 says quite plainly is that man can and does decide what is evil, based on his conscience. That's what you asked.

I interpret it to read, we will decide what is evil and we will be judged regardless of what we decide.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:40 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:56 AM Blue has responded

  
MFFJM2
Member (Idle past 1462 days)
Posts: 58
From: Washington, DC
Joined: 10-11-2009


Message 276 of 591 (726105)
05-06-2014 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Blue
05-06-2014 2:10 PM


Re: Satan
quote:
I know the revelation is from God because of revelation.

This statement is meaningless, did you perhaps forget a word..? If you think that Jehova and Satan both exist, even though there is no evidence for either, how do you know which one is sending you a revelation..? Or are you just assuming it's God and not Satan..?

quote:
I was not always a Christian.

Probably not in the womb, but since then...yes, you probablly were, even if you didn't give it much thought. An atheist wouldn't need to "test" a deity with prayer. The exercise would be meaningless.

quote:
I prayed to whatever was out there to make itself known to me. I didn't ask Christ, or Elohim to speak to me. I asked God if you are out there make yourself known to me. This lead to a many revelations, not mere coincidences.

How do you know they weren't coincidences, or confirmation bias, or delusion..? What kinds of double blind tests did you run..?

quote:
Now I accept Christ as the son of God.

Because of something you heard in your head..? Spoken like a true atheist...er, former atheist.

quote:
I am not going to dive into the specifics of the revelation because it is personal.

Too bad, I was looking forward to a burning bush or perhaps a moment of zen.

You can't imagine the number of people I've run into who believe with all their hearts that they've had communications with a deity, and then they find out things aren't always as they appear. It could have been a delusion, or an hallucination, or simply wishful thinking, and all of these are more likely than supernatural revelation. Before the supernatural can be invoked as a causal agent, all other natural explanations must first be considered.

One person, on another website, told me about how his father was near death, and when he prayed (as an atheist no less) his father was miraculously healed, and even the doctors said it was a miracle. When I asked where this miracle had been written up in the JAMA, he admitted that they diidn't write it up, just that they told him it was a miracle.

I pointed out that very often when Doctors can't explain something, rather than look stupid to the patient or the patient's family they will invoke a miracle. However, when the medical practioner is pressed they simply mean it was an unexplained event. Unexplained remission of disease is not automatically a miracle, since spontaneous remission can be seen in lab rats. Unless you think your God is healing rats miraculously..?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 2:10 PM Blue has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 4:15 PM MFFJM2 has responded

    
MFFJM2
Member (Idle past 1462 days)
Posts: 58
From: Washington, DC
Joined: 10-11-2009


Message 277 of 591 (726108)
05-06-2014 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 273 by Blue
05-06-2014 2:47 PM


Re: Satan
quote:
I do think anything is possible.

The logical absolutes say you are wrong, and that there are many things that are impossible. Can you square a circle..? Can a dog be a cat..? Something cannot be itself, and yet not itself.

quote:
I disagree with the ideology of science being the only method for discovering reality.

Science is the only way to determine reality with any degree of confidence. You can always claim some other methodology works, but unless you use the scientific method of empirical evidence, peer review, and testing it isn't viable.

quote:
We all interpret data, and based on our desires we form our conclusions.

Yes, we do, but not all opinions are of equal validity. Unless you have training, and a certain amount of expertise in a subject your opinion amounts to nothing more than hot air.

quote:
This is true for scientists as well, there is always competing theories.

Sometimes there are, and sometimes there aren't. However, the scientists determine and put forward new theories based on empirical evidence and critical thinking, not on a revelation or faith.

Edited by MFFJM2, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 2:47 PM Blue has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 4:00 PM MFFJM2 has responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 278 of 591 (726114)
05-06-2014 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 264 by Blue
05-06-2014 11:49 AM


Re: Reasons For Belief
But you didn't say
YUR NUTZ
did you?

Amazing how you fundies react to any criticism.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 11:49 AM Blue has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 3:54 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 591 (726118)
05-06-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Theodoric
05-06-2014 3:43 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
No I didn't write YUR NUTZ because I felt like writing YOUR NUTZ.

You're also reacting to criticism, non fundy.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 3:43 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 280 of 591 (726120)
05-06-2014 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 3:05 PM


Re: Satan
MFFJM2 writes:

Can you square a circle..?

Yes. I've done it plenty of times with software.

MFFJM2 writes:

Can a dog be a cat..?

Yes. Label a cat a dog, and a dog a cat.

What about this? Thylacine

MFFJM2 writes:

Something cannot be itself, and yet not itself.

Yes it can. You don't know much about quantum physics do you. Learn about wavicles/electrons or photons and light waves.

Anything is possible. It an assumption that anything is not possible. Observations don't state absolutes. Observations state an interpretation.

Edited by Blue, : Add

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 3:05 PM MFFJM2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 6:02 PM Blue has not yet responded
 Message 286 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 11:11 PM Blue has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 281 of 591 (726121)
05-06-2014 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 2:56 PM


Re: Satan
quote:

This statement is meaningless, did you perhaps forget a word..? If you think that Jehova and Satan both exist, even though there is no evidence for either, how do you know which one is sending you a revelation..? Or are you just assuming it's God and not Satan..?

I have received several revelations. I base my views not on 1 revelation but on several revelations. This is like looking at the fossil record, and then realizing fossils come out of the ground in a certain order. Apes earlier, humans first, etc. This does not mean God does not exist, it just means we don't have a good understanding perhaps, or God does not exist. There is more than 1 conclusion. As time proceeds we gather facts and build conclusions. Revelation upon revelation upon revelation has lead me to know God is real, does exist and is answering my prayers. This is not Science, this is theology. Theology is a different tool but does work well with Science.

quote:
Probably not in the womb, but since then...yes, you probablly were, even if you didn't give it much thought. An atheist wouldn't need to "test" a deity with prayer. The exercise would be meaningless.

An atheist without an open mind is like a Christian without an open mind, idiotic.

quote:
How do you know they weren't coincidences, or confirmation bias, or delusion..? What kinds of double blind tests did you run..?

People prayed for things for me and I didn't know anything about it, because of where I was in life. Then later I found out they prayed for me and I received what they had prayed about.

I have also heard other people with similar stories.

I may not able to quantify it for you, because you can't relive my history but you can pray if you are open minded and receive revelation. I doubt you would give it a chance though, which is why you are stuck in your view God does not exist. A close mind is like a closed door. You can't go anywhere, even though there is many places to go in existence.

quote:
Because of something you heard in your head..? Spoken like a true atheist...er, former atheist.

I am not an atheist anymore. I opened the door and walked outside to see things I couldn't see from inside the room. If you only stand by atheism you will not get to see other avenues of existence.

quote:
You can't imagine the number of people I've run into who believe with all their hearts that they've had communications with a deity, and then they find out things aren't always as they appear.

Most likely things are still not what they appear. Just because you become scientific about things does not mean your Science is correct. Just because a theory lives a century does not mean it will not be changed later.

The electric universe theory is shattering gravitation theories.

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 2:56 PM MFFJM2 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 6:40 PM Blue has not yet responded
 Message 287 by MFFJM2, posted 05-07-2014 12:19 AM Blue has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 282 of 591 (726154)
05-06-2014 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Blue
05-06-2014 4:00 PM


Re: Satan
You really are the king of making shit up.
Thycaline
Since when are cats or dogs marsupials? Or do you just redefine everything in order to make it fit?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 4:00 PM Blue has not yet responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5398
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 283 of 591 (726160)
05-06-2014 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Blue
05-06-2014 4:15 PM


Re: Satan
The electric universe theory is shattering gravitation theories.

Ohshit...........


This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Blue, posted 05-06-2014 4:15 PM Blue has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 7:40 PM Coragyps has not yet responded
 Message 285 by Omnivorous, posted 05-06-2014 8:17 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6551
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 284 of 591 (726165)
05-06-2014 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Coragyps
05-06-2014 6:40 PM


Re: Satan
Looks like Blue ran away. His profile is showing inactive. I guess he couldn't handle being wrong about absolutely everything. The cognitive dissonance was strong in that one.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 6:40 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 1222 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(2)
Message 285 of 591 (726168)
05-06-2014 8:17 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Coragyps
05-06-2014 6:40 PM


Re: Satan
Coragyps writes:

Blue writes:

The electric universe theory is shattering gravitation theories.

Ohshit...........

That's why we all chant ohm as we search for the lost cord.

Try to stay current, Coragyps.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 6:40 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
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