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Author Topic:   What if Jesus and Satan were real?
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 258 of 591 (726070)
05-06-2014 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 255 by Pressie
05-06-2014 1:04 AM


Re: Reasons For Belief
"your nutz" was a slang comment. I was not trying to use correct grammar. Apparently that was not understood. I am glad you picked up on the point. It should have been clear with the Z at the end of nut, or maybe it was the fact I didn't say you're crazy.
Oh and I will respond to his post shortly, since you are asking respectfully.
Edited by Blue, : Add
Edited by Blue, : Add

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Pressie, posted 05-06-2014 1:04 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 11:23 AM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 591 (726071)
05-06-2014 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 11:00 AM


Re: Reasons For Belief
I am not fearful of your response. I think you don't understand the point of my post. I will respond shortly.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 11:00 AM MFFJM2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 2:37 PM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 264 of 591 (726077)
05-06-2014 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 260 by Theodoric
05-06-2014 11:23 AM


Re: Reasons For Belief
Theodoric,
The point was not to try and spell it correctly. It was like saying YUR NUTZ. IF you don't understand slang, don't try to debate it. Most of the time, slang is going to break grammatical/spelling rules.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 260 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 11:23 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 3:43 PM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 266 of 591 (726092)
05-06-2014 2:10 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by ringo
05-06-2014 11:44 AM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
You know how gravity works right? This does not mean you know the theory, it just means you understand how gravity works. This is the same for revelations.
ringo writes:
How do you know that gravity isn't caused by Satan trying to drag us down into Hell? How do you know whom the revelation is from?
I was responding assuming you would understand the point I was trying to make. I didn't think we needed to discuss the facts forming the theory of general relativity. We don't have any information, as far as I know, from the Bible or otherwise that is suggestive Satan is responsible for gravity. I base my opinion of gravity on the observations relative to Einstein's general relativity. I suppose my opinion is also based on my personal observations. 1.) Objects smaller than the earth fall toward the earth. 2.) Objects smaller than the earth fall toward the earth at the same base rate regardless of mass (depending on the cause). If I drop a marble and a basketball they will fall at the same rate toward the earth even though the basketball has more mass. If I apply more energy to the marble it will reach the earth faster but only because I applied more energy to it, ditto to the basketball. If we ask ourselves why do things far away fall toward the earth/sun/other planets, or why do we rotate around the sun this is explained in general relativity. The sun curves the space around it due to its mass. In fact all objects that have mass curve space including the marble. We just can't observe it because the earth's mass curves all the space within a specified distance. I don't know the exact distance. If you want to know more I suggest you look up the history of Einstein, or the history of general relativity.
If you now reinterpret my post understanding that I accept general relativity, assuming you accept general relativity, it may change the way you understand my post.
I know the revelation is from God because of revelation. I was not always a Christian. I was at one time an atheist. One day I decided to give it a test in order to make an observation. I prayed to whatever was out there to make itself known to me. I didn't ask Christ, or Elohim to speak to me. I asked God if you are out there make yourself known to me. This lead to a many revelations, not mere coincidences. Now I accept Christ as the son of God. I am not going to dive into the specifics of the revelation because it is personal.
Edited by Blue, : Err

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 2:25 PM Blue has replied
 Message 269 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-06-2014 2:26 PM Blue has replied
 Message 276 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 2:56 PM Blue has replied
 Message 290 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:41 AM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 267 of 591 (726093)
05-06-2014 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by New Cat's Eye
05-06-2014 12:54 PM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
I know because of revelation.
Catholic Scientist writes:
That's the reason that you think you know. That still doesn't tell me how you know.
I believe I have answered your question in post 266. Please let me know if you have any other issues. IF you do, can you argue your point instead of asking questions. Rephrase your argument in the format of a argument instead of a question.
Edited by Blue, : Err

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-06-2014 12:54 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 271 of 591 (726098)
05-06-2014 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ringo
05-06-2014 11:36 AM


Re: Satan
ringo writes:
How do you know you can trust God
Blue writes:
You learn to trust God via prayer/revelation.
ringo writes:
That's a glib answer but it doesn't work. Why would you pray to a god unless you thought you could trust him?
I believe I can trust God because of the way in which God has revealed itself to me. Please reference post 267.
You do realize trust is always based on faith. The idea that your observations give you security is merely faith. What if the interpretation of the observations is wrong? There is always a point at which you're applying faith in trust. Yes, observations do help reduce the leap of faith being applied, which is why I have come to trust God. Please reference post 267.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:36 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:51 AM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 272 of 591 (726099)
05-06-2014 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Coragyps
05-06-2014 2:25 PM


Re: Satan
I disagree that it is unknown based on observations which are revelations.
Edited by Blue, : Err

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 2:25 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 273 of 591 (726101)
05-06-2014 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by New Cat's Eye
05-06-2014 2:26 PM


Re: Satan
I do think anything is possible. I disagree with the ideology of science being the only method for discovering reality. We all interpret data, and based on our desires we form our conclusions. This is true for scientists as well, there is always competing theories.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-06-2014 2:26 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 3:05 PM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 274 of 591 (726102)
05-06-2014 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 270 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 2:37 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
MFFJM2 writes:
I didn't write that you were fearful of my response. I wrote that you shouldn't live in fear, and that was specifically directed at the kind of deity you assert exists, and that you feel the need to worship.
I don't praise God because of fear. I praise God because I believe God exists.
MFFJM2 writes:
Your post had a point..? Well, then I most certainly did miss it. It appeared that you were rambling about many things, with very loose connectivity to them. Could we perhaps return to the thread..?
I will return to our conversation shortly.
MFFJM2 writes:
Why don't you try answering the questions I posed, and which you've done your best to ignore..?
OK.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 270 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 2:37 PM MFFJM2 has not replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 275 of 591 (726104)
05-06-2014 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by ringo
05-06-2014 11:40 AM


Re: Satan
Blue writes:
Weather or not the law is in their hearts is just a point that even gentiles will follow the law not knowing it persay.
ring writes:
What Romans 2:14-15 says quite plainly is that man can and does decide what is evil, based on his conscience. That's what you asked.
I interpret it to read, we will decide what is evil and we will be judged regardless of what we decide.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by ringo, posted 05-06-2014 11:40 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 292 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:56 AM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 279 of 591 (726118)
05-06-2014 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 278 by Theodoric
05-06-2014 3:43 PM


Re: Reasons For Belief
No I didn't write YUR NUTZ because I felt like writing YOUR NUTZ.
You're also reacting to criticism, non fundy.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 278 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 3:43 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 280 of 591 (726120)
05-06-2014 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 3:05 PM


Re: Satan
MFFJM2 writes:
Can you square a circle..?
Yes. I've done it plenty of times with software.
MFFJM2 writes:
Can a dog be a cat..?
Yes. Label a cat a dog, and a dog a cat.
What about this? Thylacine
MFFJM2 writes:
Something cannot be itself, and yet not itself.
Yes it can. You don't know much about quantum physics do you. Learn about wavicles/electrons or photons and light waves.
Anything is possible. It an assumption that anything is not possible. Observations don't state absolutes. Observations state an interpretation.
Edited by Blue, : Add
Edited by Blue, : Err

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 3:05 PM MFFJM2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by Theodoric, posted 05-06-2014 6:02 PM Blue has not replied
 Message 286 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 11:11 PM Blue has not replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 281 of 591 (726121)
05-06-2014 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by MFFJM2
05-06-2014 2:56 PM


Re: Satan
quote:
This statement is meaningless, did you perhaps forget a word..? If you think that Jehova and Satan both exist, even though there is no evidence for either, how do you know which one is sending you a revelation..? Or are you just assuming it's God and not Satan..?
I have received several revelations. I base my views not on 1 revelation but on several revelations. This is like looking at the fossil record, and then realizing fossils come out of the ground in a certain order. Apes earlier, humans first, etc. This does not mean God does not exist, it just means we don't have a good understanding perhaps, or God does not exist. There is more than 1 conclusion. As time proceeds we gather facts and build conclusions. Revelation upon revelation upon revelation has lead me to know God is real, does exist and is answering my prayers. This is not Science, this is theology. Theology is a different tool but does work well with Science.
quote:
Probably not in the womb, but since then...yes, you probablly were, even if you didn't give it much thought. An atheist wouldn't need to "test" a deity with prayer. The exercise would be meaningless.
An atheist without an open mind is like a Christian without an open mind, idiotic.
quote:
How do you know they weren't coincidences, or confirmation bias, or delusion..? What kinds of double blind tests did you run..?
People prayed for things for me and I didn't know anything about it, because of where I was in life. Then later I found out they prayed for me and I received what they had prayed about.
I have also heard other people with similar stories.
I may not able to quantify it for you, because you can't relive my history but you can pray if you are open minded and receive revelation. I doubt you would give it a chance though, which is why you are stuck in your view God does not exist. A close mind is like a closed door. You can't go anywhere, even though there is many places to go in existence.
quote:
Because of something you heard in your head..? Spoken like a true atheist...er, former atheist.
I am not an atheist anymore. I opened the door and walked outside to see things I couldn't see from inside the room. If you only stand by atheism you will not get to see other avenues of existence.
quote:
You can't imagine the number of people I've run into who believe with all their hearts that they've had communications with a deity, and then they find out things aren't always as they appear.
Most likely things are still not what they appear. Just because you become scientific about things does not mean your Science is correct. Just because a theory lives a century does not mean it will not be changed later.
The electric universe theory is shattering gravitation theories.
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Err

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by MFFJM2, posted 05-06-2014 2:56 PM MFFJM2 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Coragyps, posted 05-06-2014 6:40 PM Blue has not replied
 Message 287 by MFFJM2, posted 05-07-2014 12:19 AM Blue has not replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 310 of 591 (726371)
05-08-2014 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by ringo
05-07-2014 11:51 AM


Re: Satan
ringo writes:
Well, trust is often based on past performance. If you trust your wife not to cheat on you it's because he hasn't cheated on you before.
Can you trust God to give you what you want because He's always given you what you wanted before? Most likely not. God has a track record of doing exactly what He wants to do without regard to your wishes.
People that trust their wife not to cheat on them may trust their wife not to cheat on them just because they choose to trust their wife not to cheat on them. The trust does not always have to be based on prior experiences.
I don't praise God because I want something from God. Yes you're correct, God does exactly what God is going to do based upon God's plan. What I don't understand is people who are not thankful for existing and argue that God does what he wants. Remember God is going to grant you eternal life in a existence that God is creating.
ringo writes:
I'm glad you use the phrase "merely faith". There may be hope for you yet. I have a low opinion of faith too.
I was not saying faith is a negative or a unreliable practice. The definition is below. The point I was making is that an observation of X does not mean that the observation of X is true. X is the phenomenon that has many potential observations. A observation is a interpretation. We all observe and accept our observations and form thoughts. My thoughts on both sides of the atheist vs theist debate agree God is real and further Christ is his son. The reason I would pray to God is because I have learned to trust God via revelation. This is also why I would accept Christ as his son via revelation.
dictionary writes:
merely
ˈmi(ə)rlē/Submit
adverb
just; only.
"she seemed to him not merely an intelligent woman, but a kind of soul mate"
Merely faith = Just faith
Merely knowledge = Just knowledge
Blue writes:
What if the interpretation of the observation is wrong?
ringo writes:
Again, that's exactly the point. What if your interpretation of the observation/revelation is wrong? What if Satan is really the good guy?
The argument that Satan could be the person answering my prayers does not make sense especially if you read any satanic book. I am not claiming that it is not possible but it does not make sense. Why would Satan teach via revelation that Jesus is the son of God? Why would Satan teach via revelation that God is real? Why would Satan teach via revelation that God created all things? Why would Satan teach via revelation to praise God? Wouldn't it make more sense for Satan to teach of a godless existence? Wouldn't Satan promote atheism? Wouldn't Satan promote a higher level of disease transmission as is shown in homosexuality? Your thoughts that Satan is answering my prayers would make sense if the revelations didn't occur.
I want to make another point. It seems as if you are arguing that faith based claims are unreliable and therefor false. I have been reading a lot about the theory of inflation. The theory of inflation is based on red shift. There is actually several types of red shift. The only type of red shift that is suggestive of inflation is the doppler effect. However, recently if you follow the electric universe model, the red we see being emitted by stars probably signify age. So, here we have Scientist's who have "observed" and formed "knowledge" but that "knowledge" that is based on physical "observations" is being shown as probably wrong. I will admit that some revelations may be being interpreted incorrectly, but this is also true in Science. What is real in Science is not always REAL just like what is real in revelation is not always REAL. Arguing that revelations must not be real because they can be unreliable is just a argument not a fact. First you have to prove God is not real. Evil existing does not prove God is not real. In my opinion, Evil existing is evidence God is real. In nature have you seen a pride of lions go on a mission to commit genocide? The reason genocide occurs in my opinion is because of Evil (unless you're removing evil), not because of nature. God has a specific plan and is sticking to that specific plan. This is why Evil occurs, it has not been destroyed yet. When God's plan is complete Evil will be blotted out.

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:51 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by ringo, posted 05-09-2014 12:25 PM Blue has replied

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 311 of 591 (726373)
05-08-2014 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by ringo
05-07-2014 11:56 AM


Re: Satan
ringo, I disagree with you.
Blue writes:
Weather or not the law is in their hearts is just a point that even gentiles will follow the law not knowing it persay.
ringo writes:
What Romans 2:14-15 says quite plainly is that man can and does decide what is evil, based on his conscience. That's what you asked.
Romans 2:14-15 writes:
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)
Blue writes:
I interpret it to read, we will decide what is evil and we will be judged regardless of what we decide.
ringo writes:
Yes, we decide what is evil - and if God or some other alien entity "judges" us, then we decide whether the judgement is evil or not.
The actual context of vs 14-15 is per vs 12.
Romans 2:12-15 writes:
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another).
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Err
Edited by Blue, : Removed accidental smiley faces in prior edits..

Sincerely
Blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by ringo, posted 05-07-2014 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 318 by ringo, posted 05-09-2014 12:33 PM Blue has replied

  
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