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Author Topic:   What if Jesus and Satan were real?
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 507 of 591 (727414)
05-18-2014 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by NoNukes
05-17-2014 9:47 PM


Re: Satan
I'm lead to think evil would not of entered the world.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2014 9:47 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 509 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2014 4:10 AM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 508 of 591 (727415)
05-18-2014 1:58 AM
Reply to: Message 505 by NoNukes
05-17-2014 9:47 PM


Re: Satan
If you think about it from a human perspective which is all we have, I would argue we would have lived in harmony with God. Actual evil and good is thought out. Don't get me wrong, good things happen accidently but I don't think they quantify as love. Ditto to evil as hate... We would of lived forever... Seems sureal to think about.

Edited by Blue, : Er


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 505 by NoNukes, posted 05-17-2014 9:47 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 510 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2014 4:14 AM Blue has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 513 of 591 (727463)
05-18-2014 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 509 by NoNukes
05-18-2014 4:10 AM


Re: Satan
If you view the serpent as satan it would make sense he fell in the moment we fell. I view the story as past tense so where it called the serpent SUBTIL it is telling it after it would of occurred. Saying the serpent was subtil was based on the story. It wasn't to say the serpent had been subtil prior to the story. So the fall was the fall into evil bringing it into reality.

Fyi: evil is not random.

Edited by Blue, : Edit


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 509 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2014 4:10 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2014 6:03 PM Blue has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 514 of 591 (727464)
05-18-2014 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 511 by NoNukes
05-18-2014 4:17 AM


Re: Satan
I think it is reasonable to conclude adam spoke with eve. But it is not in the text that adam said that to eve. Ringo's perspective is that you can't draw inferences from vs 4. I disagree. A billion people also disagree including a huge community of the Jewish people, especially converted Jews. This is not something new. Also if you read vs 1 it is clear the story is about a DECEPTIVE serpent that is JUDGED separately for its sins. Look at the usage of SUBTIL in vs 1 to understand how it was a separate being being deceptive

Edited by Blue, : Er

Edited by Blue, : Add


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 511 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2014 4:17 AM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2014 6:21 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 515 of 591 (727473)
05-18-2014 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 512 by Archer Opteryx
05-18-2014 9:12 AM


Re: Satan
God's not running it. Hence free agency. It also appears you are not thinking about eternity. Further what humans think and what God thinks are not the same. God's ways are above your ways.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Archer Opteryx, posted 05-18-2014 9:12 AM Archer Opteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 516 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 1:37 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 518 of 591 (727486)
05-18-2014 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 516 by Larni
05-18-2014 1:37 PM


Re: Satan
I don't read that to mean he is running around controlling all events. I interpret it to mean God is involved in events fitting his plan. The scope of the verse should be understood within the scope of the bible which does include free agency.

Edited by Blue, : Err


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 516 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 1:37 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 521 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 2:59 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 520 of 591 (727488)
05-18-2014 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 519 by Larni
05-18-2014 2:54 PM


Re: Satan
No God is behind calamity which meant punishment. Read the entire chapter it's talking about punishment. You are contradicting your own understanding of the Bible. So you need to reinterpret it.

I know in gravitational science you can just add dark energy but in scripture you need to reinterpret issues until it is clear/not contradictory.

Edited by Blue, : Edit

Edited by Blue, : Add

Edited by Blue, : Add


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
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Blue
Inactive Member


Message 522 of 591 (727490)
05-18-2014 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 521 by Larni
05-18-2014 2:59 PM


Re: Satan
No you are wrong. Stop hating on the Bible. Think with a open mind not with your preconceptions. Look at the Hebrew lexicon definition. It is talking about calamity especially if you read the entire chapter. You are interpreting it to your own personal agenda and desires.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 521 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 2:59 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 526 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 3:19 PM Blue has responded
 Message 527 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 3:21 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 524 of 591 (727493)
05-18-2014 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 523 by Modulous
05-18-2014 3:11 PM


Re: Satan
Depends on the vantage. Of course if you were God it would be clear.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 3:11 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 525 of 591 (727494)
05-18-2014 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 523 by Modulous
05-18-2014 3:11 PM


Re: Satan
There is also the point that he was choosing evil AND delivering justice. We see this with satan in job 1. Satan is doing God's bidding. If the Jews fell away and God let it happen it would fit perfectly.

Edited by Blue, : Add


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 3:11 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 528 of 591 (727502)
05-18-2014 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by Larni
05-18-2014 3:21 PM


Re: Satan
It is not a fact. The word that was used was not actually evil.

Edited by Blue, : Edit


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 3:21 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 529 of 591 (727504)
05-18-2014 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 527 by Larni
05-18-2014 3:21 PM


Re: Satan
Evil is a English word being translated from the Hebrew word ra' which has several meanings including "evil". You do need to understand the context of the chapter to understand what is meant by "evil" in that verse. This is true for any literature, it is referred to as critical reading.

Check out other translations: Other translations

Edited by Blue, : Edit


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 3:21 PM Larni has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 4:02 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 531 of 591 (727509)
05-18-2014 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by Larni
05-18-2014 4:02 PM


Re: Satan
Reread my point. I said it could mean evil. In Genesis it does mean evil. Read my post pay attention. It is contextual to the chapter that it is meant as calamity. Look at the other translations as well.

Edited by Blue, : Edit


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 4:02 PM Larni has not yet responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 532 of 591 (727510)
05-18-2014 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 526 by Modulous
05-18-2014 3:19 PM


Re: Satan
Duh. You didn't get what I was saying about him being wrong. Wrong = the context. Ra does have several meanings. Evil, bad, calamity,... The context IS important. Look at the chapter. It is clearly meaning evil as in calamity or evil as in punishment. It is clear. Stop hating on the bible. This must be a community filled with atheists whom don't bother with context.

Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 3:19 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 4:53 PM Blue has responded
 Message 534 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 5:28 PM Blue has responded

  
Blue
Inactive Member


Message 535 of 591 (727514)
05-18-2014 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 533 by Modulous
05-18-2014 4:53 PM


Re: Satan
So the slaughtering of women at Shechem was an evil created by God, the Babylonian exile was an evil created by God, the enslavement in Egypt was an evil created by God and for all we know the holocaust was too.

I am not sure how these evils were created by God?

So what evil is God not responsible for creating?

God is not responsible for evil. God is responsible for free agency. God is responsible for punishing evil.

Why would I stop hating books that justify murder, enslavement, capital punishment for trivial crimes, rape, and teaches people that their loved ones are being tortured forever because they couldn't convince them that Jesus is saviour?

Where does it read any of this...

It's like one of the worst collections of writings in the history of mankind - responsible for misery and suffering than Nero ever managed.

It is a book responsible for love and the rise of actual peace. Humanity, along with satan is responsible for suffering.

Let me rephrase this a different way, if religion is the creation of humanity than religion is not the issue.


Sincerely

Blue


This message is a reply to:
 Message 533 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 4:53 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by Larni, posted 05-18-2014 5:47 PM Blue has not yet responded
 Message 541 by Modulous, posted 05-18-2014 6:07 PM Blue has responded

  
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