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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 406 of 1309 (727756)
05-20-2014 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:35 AM


Re: sexual aberrations
Faith writes:
... it's about a misapplication of marriage....
I agree - but it's the anti-gays who are misapplying it. Marriage is a government-sanctioned contract between two people for the purpose of sharing government-sanctioned benefits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:35 AM Faith has not replied

Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 407 of 1309 (727759)
05-20-2014 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:35 AM


Re: sexual aberrations
The subject is gay marriage, the changing of an institution to apply it to people other than it is meant to apply to.
We already changed the institution of voting to allow women to vote.
We already changed the institution of marriage to allow couples of mixed race to get married.
We already changed the definition of "person" to allow black people to vote, and have access to the same bathroom as white people.
We already changed this entire country by declaring our independence in 1776.
Is that really your only argument, that you don't want anything to change because any change is bad, no matter what?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:35 AM Faith has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 408 of 1309 (727761)
05-20-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:35 AM


Re: sexual aberrations
It isn't about people at all really ...
Sheesh. Well, that's your opinion of what it's all about. But the rest of us think that it is about people and not about the abstractions in your head. Shall we take a vote?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:35 AM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(3)
Message 409 of 1309 (727764)
05-20-2014 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 400 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:35 AM


inconsistency and avoidance
The subject is gay marriage
Except we're talking about a law which prohibits discrimination of race, religion, sex, and sexual preference. It just so happens in this one case, the discrimination came about when the discriminators heard the discriminated were going to have a homosexual marriage.
It isn't about people at all really
Except in the fact that its about one group of people refusing to provide service to another group of people because a third group of people recognize their relationship and provide the same rights to both parties.
it's about a misapplication of marriage
Some people are signing a contract which conveys rights upon them given by a government. This does not mean they are bound in holy matrimony by the Lord God. I know, its confusing because they both use the word marriage to describe it. English does that sometimes, I would have thought you'd have grown used to it by now. Churches don't decide who gets to sign contracts, Mosques don't get to decide what words the government chooses to call its contracts.
What is happening is that the government uses the word 'marriage' to describe the contractual agreement and you think this is remotely related to your personal theological definition. But since the marriage contract does not, as a matter of fact, make any assertions about God's opinion, I fail to see what it has to do with your religious view.
and what ought to be my right to refuse to honor it
You have that right. You can refuse to honour mixed-race marriages too. Entirely within your rights. But if you are operating a for profit business, you have to follow the rules of the government that governs the economy. You want the right to own a business? You have to play by the rules - and nobody's religious views should give them exemptions to the law (though it regularly does, if you have the right kind of religious views that are sufficiently acceptable to the Christian lawmakers).
Nobody is forcing anybody to call two married gay people 'married'. You can call them sinners, perverts, aberrations all you like. Absolutely in your rights to have whatever opinion you want. But you don't get to make up the rules of business, you have to vote along with the rest of the US.
What puzzles me is why you don't spend this much energy protesting the fact that the government calls 'second marriages', 'marriages' rather than the Christian word 'adultery'. Even if you don't believe this yourself, surely you recognize that it is the viewpoint of Biblical Christians who believe marriage is something only those who are uncontrollably lustful should enter into and that which God has joined, no man can tear apart.
All your nasty comparisons have nothing to do with this.
Here's the thing, Faith: You've been fighting for your rights to behave as your religion dictates, but even when confronted about it - you refuse to acknowledge the rights of other religious people to behave as their religion dictates. You won't address the fact that there are some behaviours that some religions proscribe which are currently illegal and have been for a long time.
Child sacrifice? A religious behaviour made illegal. Faith does not fight for their rights.
Inter-racial marriage? An abomination to some religious viewpoints. Faith does not complain that it is illegal to discriminate against such couples.
Furthermore, for all your complaining, you have abjectly refused to acknowledge that the law protects you as much as it protects homosexuals.
The way you have been talking Faith is that your personal religious viewpoint should be given special treatment. You have exhibited complete disregard for fairness.
And so, because of your obvious inconsistencies and hypocrisies, you are going to continue facing 'nasty comparisons' - which I interpret to mean 'comparisons that are completely accurate but that Faith can't deal with because she would have to admit she wants to her religious viewpoints to be acknowledged to be superior to everyone else's views.'.
Yes, being a racist is nasty. So is being a homophobe.
Here's the thing, everybody is a sinner. And many people sin without intervention from the government, and some sins are protected by law, including your own. It completely bamboozles me - God is judge, right? His justice is absolute and perfect, right? So why do Christians feel they have to make others suffer while they are alive? God's got this, Faith. Those homosexuals are going to be punished - so why must humans take things into their own hands on earth? I understand locking murderers away - they prevent other people from living happy and free. But why must homosexuals be punished just because they want to sign a government contract? It seems that because the government has its own form of union that they call 'marriage', you think this means you have to say that God has cemented the union, which you feel is oppressive. But you don't have to do that.
And finally - you are basically forcing homosexuals to be fornicators (1 Co 7) which means you want there to be more sin in the world, not less. So even if you win, even if you are right, you are making the world a worse place to live. As it turns out, you are losing, and most people think you are wrong and you and your kin (in viewpoint) are making the world a worse place to live. This might help explain why people are being 'nasty' to you.

As for me? I'm an atheist and I accept evolution. Homosexuality causes no harm in this world, and there are no others, but even if there were that does not justify causing harm to homosexuals. Homosexuals are people, descended from just as noble lineage as myself. Society is better off now that we aren't castrating and imprisoning good people for acting on desires that do not harm the involved parties.
ID of course has nothing to say about homosexuality, technically.
And creationists? Not universally, but close to it, they seem to take every opportunity to insult, denigrate, humiliate, scorn and mock homosexuals while trying to legislate against them at every opportunity. Historically that doesn't separate them much from Theistic Evolutionists, but as with every other social issue for the past 200 years, the creationists are always the ones who, unto death, will insist they get to act immorally. Fortunately, people like Faith are dying off quickly. When I was young the 'racist grandparent' was a common trope, but now it is becoming 'homophobic parent'. Soon, it will be grandparent, then they'll mostly be dead.
This is cultural evolution. And it terrifies creationists like nothing else on earth.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 400 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:35 AM Faith has not replied

saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


(1)
Message 410 of 1309 (727766)
05-20-2014 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 253 by Faith
05-14-2014 4:44 AM


Re: Courts strike down anti-gay maraige in Arkansas and Idaho
A few posts above Dr A is mocking the plight of Christian business owners who have been targeted by Gay Rights advocates to punish them for refusing to provide services that would imply approval of gay marriage, which would violate their consciences.
You dont have a right to be a dick. That is not nor should it be protected by anything. These xian shopkeepers and other business-owners are just that, dicks and they should be ridiculed and scorned not because of their faith but for their heinous discrimination.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 253 by Faith, posted 05-14-2014 4:44 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 411 of 1309 (727767)
05-20-2014 2:23 PM


Like I said, Christians object to gay marriage. So throw us in the dungeon. Fine us, kick us, beat us, string us up. We object to gay marriage.

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Coragyps, posted 05-20-2014 2:27 PM Faith has replied
 Message 413 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-20-2014 2:32 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 415 by Larni, posted 05-20-2014 2:39 PM Faith has replied
 Message 434 by Taq, posted 05-20-2014 4:11 PM Faith has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 412 of 1309 (727769)
05-20-2014 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Faith
05-20-2014 2:23 PM


NOBODY IS FUCKING TRYING TO LOCK YOU UP, FAITH!!!!!!

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:36 PM Coragyps has not replied

Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4344
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 413 of 1309 (727771)
05-20-2014 2:32 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Faith
05-20-2014 2:23 PM


Like I said, Christians object to gay marriage. So throw us in the dungeon. Fine us, kick us, beat us, string us up. We object to gay marriage.
Faith, you are so full of bullshit!!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:23 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 414 of 1309 (727772)
05-20-2014 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by Coragyps
05-20-2014 2:27 PM


Do follow the argument. Christians HAVE BEEN FINED for refusing to make a wedding cake for a gay wedding and for refusing to take photographs at a gay wedding. As long as gay rights people keep baiting us we're going to refuse to support gay weddings and get fined. Give it a few years, the punishments are only going to get worse.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by Coragyps, posted 05-20-2014 2:27 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 447 by Modulous, posted 05-20-2014 5:45 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


(1)
Message 415 of 1309 (727773)
05-20-2014 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Faith
05-20-2014 2:23 PM


I guess that would make you the same as a conscientious objector. They were happy to go to jail for their convictions.
Enjoy jail, I guess.
Oh wait, first you need to buy a bakery and refuse to sell bread to those no good queers. Or go an a mass protest (like Operation American Spring) and get into a fight with a copper. Or picket a gay wedding and hurl rocks at the happy couple.
If you can find some way of avoiding doing these things you should be safe.
Hold on, Obama might have a Christian thought detector: better get that tinfoil hat as stay out of jail.
And for God's sake DON'T PLAY MONOPOLY!
Edited by Larni, : No reason given.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:42 PM Larni has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 416 of 1309 (727775)
05-20-2014 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Larni
05-20-2014 2:39 PM


Preachers will go next. Then maybe I will too because I'm a blogger and this is one of my topics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Larni, posted 05-20-2014 2:39 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by Larni, posted 05-20-2014 2:49 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 421 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-20-2014 3:05 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 417 of 1309 (727777)
05-20-2014 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 416 by Faith
05-20-2014 2:42 PM


Preachers will go next. Then maybe I will too because I'm a blogger and this is one of my topics.
Don't be silly, no body has 'gone'. Unless it was the 10-30 million Christian Republican patriots 'vanished' by Obama before Operation American Spring took place.
Maybe you should be worried.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:42 PM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 418 of 1309 (727778)
05-20-2014 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 405 by frako
05-20-2014 12:03 PM


Re: sexual aberrations
What gays want is equal rights, not a condo up in heaven for doing what god wants.
What gays want is to persecute Christians for opposing gay marriage and calling homosexuality a sin. They aren't interested in equal rights, they've had rights for years. They've set up their own relationships in many ways for years without anybody bothering them. Now they've found a way they can take away the rights of Bible Christians by forcing us to validate gay marriage or take punishment. That is what this is all about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by frako, posted 05-20-2014 12:03 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by Larni, posted 05-20-2014 2:59 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 420 by frako, posted 05-20-2014 3:02 PM Faith has replied
 Message 423 by Modulous, posted 05-20-2014 3:15 PM Faith has replied
 Message 430 by Taq, posted 05-20-2014 4:09 PM Faith has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 419 of 1309 (727781)
05-20-2014 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Faith
05-20-2014 2:49 PM


Re: sexual aberrations
It's not those no good queers doing this, it's politicians and the people who vote for them.
Your position and ideology is that a moral dinosaur; looking up to the heavens as the first shower of meteorites begins to fall.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:49 PM Faith has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 420 of 1309 (727783)
05-20-2014 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by Faith
05-20-2014 2:49 PM


Re: sexual aberrations
Now they've found a way they can take away the rights of Bible Christians by forcing us to validate gay marriage or take punishment.
yea they want you to validate it as the state does, you can still scream bloody murder theyr not going to heaven, you just cant deny them marriage. marriage is not a Christian invention and you do not have a monopoly or a patent on it.
And marriage isnt the only right yes they get to shop everywhere too, they get the same sinks, as everybody else, the bathrooms .... Would you not sell a cake to a muslim couple, what about a jewish couple, or atheist couple, because from your perspective we are all sinners too so no cake for us right.
Edited by frako, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 2:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 422 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 3:10 PM frako has replied

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