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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 363 of 1309 (727541)
05-19-2014 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by Faith
05-19-2014 12:44 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Your knowledge of history is appalling. The Pilgrims and Puritans never did any such thing. Muslims do this in their own countries, spit at and shove Christians off the curb, that's where that idea comes from, not from Christians. None of the Christian founders of this nation did any such thing. Where does this evil propaganda come from? Have you read the writings of Bradford and Winthrop? Do you care?
Have you ever heard of the Boston Martyrs, Faith ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 12:44 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:46 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 367 of 1309 (727545)
05-19-2014 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Faith
05-19-2014 1:46 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
You can always find aberrations and exceptions. The Salem Witch Trials are an example. These things are not definitive or characteristic and at least in the case of the Salem trials were opposed and abhorred by the Puritan leadership.
I think that passing a law specifically banning Quakers from the Colony on pain of death - and actually executing some who disobeyed it - is more than a mere aberration.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-19-2014 1:56 AM PaulK has not replied
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:58 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 370 of 1309 (727548)
05-19-2014 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by Faith
05-19-2014 1:58 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
THREE mistakes, Paul, THREE.
Which "mistakes" are those ? There were four executions, and a whole lot of other bad behaviour.
quote:
I'd say the law that fines Christian businesses for refusing to support gay marriage is in the same evil spirit.
There is no law commanding support for gay marriage. Only laws demanding non-discrimination in the provision of services.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 1:58 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 371 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:17 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 372 of 1309 (727550)
05-19-2014 2:25 AM
Reply to: Message 371 by Faith
05-19-2014 2:17 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Clever of them.
What on earth are you talking about ?
quote:
So when you refuse to inscribe a cake with a message extolling white supremacy you expect to be punished and would consider it only right.
So far as I am aware White Supremacists are not a minority in need of protection or with legal protection from discrimination. And personally I would point out that there are significant differences between would-be oppressors and those who wish to be free from oppression.
Again, you are attacking the law without understanding what it says or the reasons behind it. But I guess pointing that out is what you call "hate".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 371 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:39 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 376 of 1309 (727557)
05-19-2014 3:50 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by Faith
05-19-2014 2:39 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
I notice that you keep dropping claims without offering the slightest support. But I want to know who is "being clever" and how.
quote:
If a Christian business owner can be fined for refusing to do anything that supports gay marriage that is an evil law. Period
I have a rather different view of anti-discrimination laws. But you're obviously not interested in actually discussing those issues. Which is one of the ways that we can tell that you're the hater here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 373 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 2:39 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 3:59 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 377 of 1309 (727558)
05-19-2014 3:53 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Faith
05-19-2014 3:17 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
I said "were." They've been thrown out in recent years, that's why the nation is self-destructing.
Perhaps you could point to the laws which made Hinduism, for example, illegal in the United States, and tell us when they were repealed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 3:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 4:00 AM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 382 of 1309 (727563)
05-19-2014 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 378 by Faith
05-19-2014 3:59 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Obviously Biblical Christians oppose gay marriage, so obviously a law that prevents us from doing that is designed only to persecute Christians, there is nothing legitimate about it. The hatred is all against Christians who believe what the Bible says.
It's not at all obvious that Biblical Christians should oppose gay marriage, as a secular institution. Nor is it obvious that you can judge a law based only on one of it's effects. And if the hate is against you, why are you the one making wild accusations and refusing to understand the issues?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 3:59 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 383 of 1309 (727564)
05-19-2014 4:37 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Faith
05-19-2014 4:00 AM


Re: You knew sinners bought cakes when you baked them.
quote:
Far as I know it isn't illegal. What is your point?
If I ask when a law was repealed it should be pretty clear that I don't think that it is in effect now. So you aren't answering the question at all.
But I'll rephrase it. Which laws enforced the First Commandment, and when were they repealed ? You said it was only done recently.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Faith, posted 05-19-2014 4:00 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 443 of 1309 (727812)
05-20-2014 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by Faith
05-20-2014 4:23 PM


Faith, can't you see what is really going on in this discussion ? You are the one who doesn't understand what is going on. You haven't bothered to understand what is going on. You won't listen to those of us who tell you what's going on. And because we don't agree with your fantasies you incorporate us into them, and accuse us of being Nazis.
Now you tell me, is that Christian behaviour ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 4:23 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 453 of 1309 (727834)
05-21-2014 2:58 AM
Reply to: Message 452 by Faith
05-20-2014 10:29 PM


Re: evidence
OK, Faith I think that this is an opportunity for you to learn something and to start fixing one of the problems holding you back in debates. As numerous examples attest you aren't very good on evaluating evidence. You need to understand what the facts are, which claims they support and how the facts support the claims.
So, to start.
1) which of your claims is supported by this alleged evidence? I think we need not bother with undisputed claims here
2) how does the evidence support the claims?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 452 by Faith, posted 05-20-2014 10:29 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 481 of 1309 (727892)
05-21-2014 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Faith
05-21-2014 1:12 PM


Re: evidence
Faith, what evidence do you have that granting gays the benefit of the non-discrimination laws will lead to persection of "Christians" ? And spare us the unsupported assertions, and fantasies. I mean actual evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 479 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 1:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 1:47 PM PaulK has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 483 of 1309 (727898)
05-21-2014 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Faith
05-21-2014 1:47 PM


Re: evidence
You haven't given any real evidence that there's any intent to take things as far as actual persecution. Christians are still protected by the same laws. The Constitution still forbids laws directly targeting Christians. There's no sign of any move to change any of that. And even your "enemies", such as the ACLU would oppose attempts to change that.
So what evidence do you have?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 1:47 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 492 of 1309 (727919)
05-21-2014 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 489 by Faith
05-21-2014 6:18 PM


Re: evidence
So you think that the Southern Baptists are pseudo-Christians? And all the segregegationusts? And everyone who pushes the "Curse of Ham" business as a reason to argue that Blacks should be servants?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 489 by Faith, posted 05-21-2014 6:18 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 543 of 1309 (728074)
05-23-2014 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
To sum up, all your whining about "persecution" is really whining that you "Christians" are no longer allowed to persecute others.
I guess you ought to go back at least as far as Charles II taking control of Massachusetts bay and telling the Puritans that they weren't allowed to have Quakers whipped out of town any more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 560 of 1309 (728101)
05-23-2014 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 553 by Faith
05-23-2014 4:53 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
quote:
Christianity always had "more rights" in Christian countries because it was recognized as the truth and the basis for a good society -- for all citizens, not just Christians; also because Christians had been persecuted and had to have those protections.
Sure, the "right" to persecute others is just a "protection".
quote:
If you succeed in throwing it out completely what's going to happen is a degeneration of society to a level even you can't imagine or desire.
I'd don't want to get rid of Christianity. But there is little that is Christian or good in your cult. However, because I believe in freedom of religion I can only hope that it dies away as its lies and evil are exposed.
quote:
What you don't get is that it IS loving people to warn them about the consequences of providing rights for something like gay marriage which is a violation of God's law, consequences to the society but also to the individuals.
Trying to control people with lies and empty threats isn't loving. If the threats weren't empty it would be terrorism.
quote:
Would it be loving to let them destroy themselves, end up in Hell because they've been deceived into thinking their lifestyle is OK when it's not? Sin is sin, any kind of sin gets you into Hell, but deceiving yourself that your sin is not a sin is a particularly dangerous situation. Jesus was no wimpy patsy of the sort you all like to picture Him, He loved sinners but He didn't let them stay in their sins, He told them to "repent and believe." And He warned the Pharisees they were headed for Hell too.
If you just stuck to warning people that they were going to hell I would be a lot happier.
But you're a habitual and unrepentant sinner, too. And your religion is at the heart of your sins. If you want to be a Christian abandon your pride and your hate and your lies. Because if Christianity is true, you're headed straight for hell.
quote:
I've never killed or persecuted anyone in my life and I don't know any Christians who have
But there are Christiians who have. And your attitude is very dangerous to freedom and society. Belonging to a religion you don't like is a sin ? Then there is no right to practice that religion, and you can suppress it any way you have the power to. Teaching truths you don't like is a sin? Then you can suppress those truths, too. God's judgement is a threat ? Get rid of the sinners. The Old Testament has plenty of nastiness if you need scriptural justification.
Maybe you ought to see the virtues of a fair and just society, instead of claiming special privileges for yourself and denying others the rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:53 PM Faith has not replied

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