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Author Topic:   Homosexuality and Evo, Creo, and ID
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 541 of 1309 (728070)
05-23-2014 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
The idea that a sin should have any rights whatever in conflict with the God who made us all is so disgustingly ludicrous there is nothing to "analyze." This is a bogus and downright evil claim of rights for a group of sinners that should never have even been thought up.
A couple of questions. First, are we talking about gay people or bankers? Second, is that a direct quote from the Sudanese judge who sentenced Meriam Yehya, or merely a paraphrase?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 545 by dronestar, posted 05-23-2014 12:29 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 542 of 1309 (728073)
05-23-2014 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
and what that means is that Christians are going to be punished more and more as we are going to disobey this outrageous travesty.
Can I ask, is having to live in a society where you cannot refuse to serve gays in and of itself a punishment?
It seems to me (and forgive me if I'm wrong) that being forced to conform to the law of the land (in this case) is counted as punishment of Christians (from your perspective).
And further, there is a pernicious, sinister reason for society forcing you to act against your conscience (which I fully accept is happening, here).
What would that reason be?

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 543 of 1309 (728074)
05-23-2014 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
To sum up, all your whining about "persecution" is really whining that you "Christians" are no longer allowed to persecute others.
I guess you ought to go back at least as far as Charles II taking control of Massachusetts bay and telling the Puritans that they weren't allowed to have Quakers whipped out of town any more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 544 of 1309 (728076)
05-23-2014 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 535 by Phat
05-23-2014 12:43 AM


Re: God's Other Laws
Phat writes:
Just because you love the guy doesnt mean you need to marry him. Thats a cultural expectation.
Indeed it is. So why would a culture deny its own expectations?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 535 by Phat, posted 05-23-2014 12:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 545 of 1309 (728077)
05-23-2014 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 541 by Dr Adequate
05-23-2014 11:53 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Sheesh DA,
That's pretty harsh to compare Faith to the Sudanese judge who's trying the case against Meriam Yehya Ibrahim Ishag.
quote:
The judge told Ishaq, We gave you three days to recant, but you insist on not returning to Islam. I sentence you to be hanged to death.
I think you owe the Sudanese judge an apology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 541 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-23-2014 11:53 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 546 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 12:59 PM dronestar has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 546 of 1309 (728079)
05-23-2014 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 545 by dronestar
05-23-2014 12:29 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
You're all as usual making insanely false moral equivalences. But that's how you're going to get Satanism under protection soon too, isn't it? You have no idea what horrors you are playing with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 545 by dronestar, posted 05-23-2014 12:29 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by dronestar, posted 05-23-2014 1:23 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 551 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-23-2014 4:11 PM Faith has replied

dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(4)
Message 547 of 1309 (728080)
05-23-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Faith
05-23-2014 12:59 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Faith writes:
You have no idea what horrors you are playing with.
Perhaps. But since I know the horrors that you are offering, I'll take the chance with Satan.
When you see god, please tell him that it was specifically you that swayed me to Satan.
Edited by dronester, : my picture links are always disappearing, new link

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 12:59 PM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(3)
Message 548 of 1309 (728081)
05-23-2014 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Satanists don't worship Satan
The idea that a sin should have any rights whatever in conflict with the God who made us all is so disgustingly ludicrous there is nothing to "analyze."
Sin does not have rights.
Sinners do.
Which is why we don't hang draw and quarter murderers, and ensure they are given as fair a trial as is possible etc. Because they have a right to due process and to not be subject to cruel and unusual punishment.
Christianity has been thrown out of society and is rapidly losing rights, all in keeping with the lovely sentiments at EvC too.
It is not thrown out of society.
It is not losing rights.
It is losing privilege. That's what you've mistaken for 'rights'.
Again you are discussing something that is an absolute abomination as if it were a rational conflict of rights in a rational society.
I think that circumcision is an abomination, I really do. I think it is an outrage against morality. But it turns out that religious rights and the rights of a parent have traditionally outweighed the rights of the infant and my right to not be sympathetically upset.
I call that a 'rational conflict of rights', but maybe its my notorious open-mindedness.
"Society" is writing Christians out of our time-honored rights in what used to be a Christian society
Didn't America get founded because of all the problems that time-honoured rights in Europe were causing?
Honoured by time is meaningless.
What is happening is that Christians of similar views to you, were so predominant in society that they could get away with killing their child, failure to provide employees with full medical coverage, firing people for being atheist or gay, failing to vaccinate their children and numerous others no doubt. Furthermore, the IRS still refuses to do anything about the fact that about 1500 churches admit to breaking regulations that permit them to be tax exempt (Pulpit Freedom Sunday), and secularists are not getting far in asking the IRS to fulfil its legal duty.
But things are changing. And that bothers you. Because your little privileged bubble is being burst and you are slowly being equalized with every other group in the USA.
what that means is that Christians are going to be punished more and more as we are going to disobey this outrageous travesty.
Yes - that happened to the racists too (including the Christian ones). Eventually it stopped.
In keeping with all this outrageously evil stupidity, a Satanist society in New York is trying to get a statue of Satan erected on government grounds in Oklahoma
Satanism don't worship Satan, you know that right? It's just a name they chose to get your knickers in a twist. That particular group has 7 tenets
quote:
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forego your own.
Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word.
Regarding Satan they say:
quote:
Satan stands as the ultimate icon for the selfless revolt against tyranny
I can see you disagreeing, but I can't see why you'd think that is evil.
Anyway, you know what is evil stupidity? Allowing Christians to have a public display of their religious position on Government grounds, but no other religion is. A Hindu group is also trying to get something put up there.
You know why?
Lucien Greaves writes:
They envisioned it more as a ‘poison pill’ in the church-state debate. The idea was that Satanists, asserting their rights and privileges where religious agendas have been successful in imposing themselves upon public affairs, could serve as a poignant reminder that such privileges are for everybody, and can be used to serve an agenda beyond the current narrow understanding of what ‘the’ religious agenda is
Because what Oklahoma are doing is unconstitutional if and only if they deny other religious monuments. The State has issued a moratorium on other monuments until the ACLUs case to get the 10 commandments removed is over.
David Silverman writes:
There is now a law, on the books of Oklahoma, respecting the establishment of Christianity, which is grossly unconstitutional.
They are making a point. The State tried to have the case dismissed, but their motion was denied just yesterday.
Finally, they did not try and erect a statue of Satan. It was Baphomet.
Lavey writes:
The Devil does not exist. It is a false name invented by the Black Brothers to imply a Unity in their ignorant muddle of dispersions. A devil who had unity would be a God... 'The Devil' is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes... This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade 'Know Thyself!' and taught Initiation. He is 'The Devil' of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the Androgyne who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection... He is therefore Life, and Love. But moreover his letter is ayin, the Eye, so that he is Light; and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, that leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty
But then, why would I expect you to know (or be interested in) the facts about other religious viewpoints?
just tried to have a Satanic black mass on the Harvard campus
Black Mass is a religious tradition designed to satire (Catholics primarily, but others by extension/association) and educate. It's not 'real' devilry.
That's where society has gone
Yes, all religious viewpoints are starting to get equal access to public space. That must really rankle Christians who have enjoyed a monopoly for so long.
Now out and out Satanism is claiming its "rights" too.
Being humans who practice a religion means they have had rights since the formation of the USA.
So far Oklahoma has resisted and the black mass was shouted down at Harvard but give it time
Shouted down by Christians who wanted to curtail the freedoms of other religious viewpoints. But sure, its the Christians being persecuted here.
Probably doesn't bother any of you one bit.
Why would humanists who appreciate the power of symbolism and the community of religion, asserting the rights the founding fathers gave them, bother me?
Soon I expect to hear you all, hey maybe today, saying well but all religions should have equal rights in "society" and why shouldn't that include Satanists?
Well why shouldn't it?
Hey, the statue is going to have children there too, Satan's really a nice god of love and stuff.
Most Satanists are atheists. Lucien Greaves, the co-founder of the Satanic Temple in Oklahoma is an atheist.
Does anybody even know that Harvard's original motto was "Truth for Christ and the Church?"
Do you know that the USA's original motto was E Pluribus Unum? Seems you have a big problem with the Pluribus bit.
You'll find it interesting that originally, students in Harvard who had homosexual sex could be put to death. Being a Quaker could get you hanged. Being a female doctor was bad for your health too. Then of course there was slavery (with all the whippings and dismemberments that involved). And may God help you if your ancestors had lived in America for thousands of years.
Do you think Harvard's founders, is educators and those educated there were interested in 'truth for Christ'? What's worse - legalizing slavery, executing people on trumped up charges and for practicing homosexuality or being born to the wrong religion and genocide - Or mocking Catholic rituals (the Black Mass) and beliefs (along with some other popular hits)?
So Christians who have the guts to stand for truth (how many will that be I wonder?) are going to be punished as soon as the flood of evil has the upper hand.
No - those Christians who operate public businesses who do not provide services and products equally, will be punished. The rest will be fine.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 549 of 1309 (728082)
05-23-2014 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 507 by Faith
05-22-2014 6:06 AM


Yarmulkes
Is a tax on wearing yarmulkes a tax on Jews?
Why, or why not?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 507 by Faith, posted 05-22-2014 6:06 AM Faith has not replied

frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 550 of 1309 (728087)
05-23-2014 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
In keeping with all this outrageously evil stupidity, a Satanist society in New York is trying to get a statue of Satan erected on government grounds in Oklahoma, and just tried to have a Satanic black mass on the Harvard campus. That's where society has gone. Now out and out Satanism is claiming its "rights" too. Probably doesn't bother any of you one bit. So far Oklahoma has resisted and the black mass was shouted down at Harvard but give it time. Soon I expect to hear you all, hey maybe today, saying well but all religions should have equal rights in "society" and why shouldn't that include Satanists? Hey, the statue is going to have children there too, Satan's really a nice god of love and stuff. Does anybody even know that Harvard's original motto was "Truth for Christ and the Church?"
Well because most Satanist cults are actually atheists and dont believe in Satan its just how they get Christian blood boiling.
but yea Christianity always had more rights then the other less worthy people does that sound fair to you.
Its surprising that the more fanatical religious people are the more likely they are to forget Christ teachings love everybody equally, first its some are more equal then others then there is they are not equal at all lets kill them.
Edited by AdminPhat, : No reason given.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand
What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 553 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:53 PM frako has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 551 of 1309 (728089)
05-23-2014 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 546 by Faith
05-23-2014 12:59 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
You're all as usual making insanely false moral equivalences.
Yeah, there's no valid comparison between those of God's Laws you want to follow and those you want to ignore; between the particular sect of the particular religion you've chosen, and the different religious sects chosen by people who aren't you; between your religious freedoms and everyone else's; between a law restricting your ability to discriminate against the people you disapprove of and a law restricting others' ability to discriminate against the people they disapprove of; and between the minority groups you hate and the minority groups you don't. Because you're special, Faith, you're so fucking special, and it's about time the laws of the land reflected that fact. Maybe we could amend the Constitution for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 546 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 12:59 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 555 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:55 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 552 of 1309 (728090)
05-23-2014 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 540 by Faith
05-23-2014 11:14 AM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Christianity has been thrown out of society and is rapidly losing rights ...
Apparently it's OK to deprive Christians of their rights so long as we say we're doing it for religious reasons, which would be true pretty much as a matter of logical necessity. All we have to do is condemn you as evil sinners and suchlike, and then we can deprive you of cake and throw you to the lions. Well maybe not the lions, it's one of those legal gray areas. I feel certain we can throw you to something.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 11:14 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 554 by Faith, posted 05-23-2014 4:54 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 553 of 1309 (728091)
05-23-2014 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 550 by frako
05-23-2014 3:07 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Christianity always had "more rights" in Christian countries because it was recognized as the truth and the basis for a good society -- for all citizens, not just Christians; also because Christians had been persecuted and had to have those protections.
If you succeed in throwing it out completely what's going to happen is a degeneration of society to a level even you can't imagine or desire.
What you don't get is that it IS loving people to warn them about the consequences of providing rights for something like gay marriage which is a violation of God's law, consequences to the society but also to the individuals. It's even loving toward the homosexuals too. Would it be loving to let them destroy themselves, end up in Hell because they've been deceived into thinking their lifestyle is OK when it's not? Sin is sin, any kind of sin gets you into Hell, but deceiving yourself that your sin is not a sin is a particularly dangerous situation. Jesus was no wimpy patsy of the sort you all like to picture Him, He loved sinners but He didn't let them stay in their sins, He told them to "repent and believe." And He warned the Pharisees they were headed for Hell too.
I've never killed or persecuted anyone in my life and I don't know any Christians who have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 550 by frako, posted 05-23-2014 3:07 PM frako has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 556 by frako, posted 05-23-2014 5:07 PM Faith has replied
 Message 560 by PaulK, posted 05-23-2014 5:30 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 593 by Straggler, posted 05-30-2014 7:49 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 554 of 1309 (728093)
05-23-2014 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 552 by Dr Adequate
05-23-2014 4:16 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Oh no doubt you can throw us to something. Read up on the Inquisition. I'm sure you can come up with some really interesting places to throw us, hang us, bury us, suffocate us, whatever.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 552 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-23-2014 4:16 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 557 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-23-2014 5:10 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 555 of 1309 (728094)
05-23-2014 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 551 by Dr Adequate
05-23-2014 4:11 PM


Re: conflicting rights you've got to be kidding
Funny I just think I'm representing traditional mainline Protestantism, nothing special, just basic Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 551 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-23-2014 4:11 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

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