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Author Topic:   The UK Election!!!!
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 406 of 427 (728095)
05-23-2014 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 402 by Larni
05-23-2014 4:51 AM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
The Tories are a bit buggered I 'reckon'. They have to throw the libs some bones but they also don't want the more right wing voters turning their coats to UKIP (boo hiss).
Personally I hate the libs because they took the Tory shilling, the Tories because they are a bunch of Toffs and UKIP because a nice coat of paint on a racist still leaves you with a racist.
The Lib Dems have consistently been campaigned for LGBT rights, with resistance from the Tories and Labour, since their founding. Among other reasons, I cannot hate them. I hate Labour because of their funding, and the Tories for obvious reasons. I still don't know why people voted UKIP into council seats. Local councils don't have influence on foreign affairs, European policy or immigration. So why?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Larni, posted 05-24-2014 10:16 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied
 Message 409 by Straggler, posted 05-27-2014 9:51 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 407 of 427 (728141)
05-24-2014 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Modulous
05-23-2014 4:58 PM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
Don't get me wrong, my politics are mostly liberal but the current collection of of lackwits means I cannot in good conscience vote for them.
As for UKIP? I guess people want to be able to be racist but have the legitimacy of a high profile political party to validate their behaviour.
What I hope is that UKIP guts the Torrys and then implodes on itself.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 408 of 427 (728343)
05-27-2014 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 407 by Larni
05-24-2014 10:16 AM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
I am delighted to see that London didn't join the UKIP bandwagon. At least nowhere near to the extent that most of the rest of the country seems to have done. Possibly because Londoners, whatever their individual political views, know that foreigners living next-door or the existence of a mosque within a ten mile radius or people of the same sex holding hands in the street - doesn't result in the end of the world and civilisation as we know it.
Poor Liberal Democrats. I am actually starting to feel sorry for Nick Clegg. He looks about ten years older than he did a fortnight ago. I'm not sure a change of leader would even make that much difference. All the Lib Dem voters I know voted Lib dem in the 2010 general election on the basis that the Lib Dems were advocating policies broadly left of labour and voting reform. They ended up complicit with a right-wing conservative austerity government and a referendum on changing the voting system that their conservative 'partners' hobbled ruthlessly.
Those looking for leftwing social democratic policies of the sort the Lib Dems used to advocate seem to have either turned to labour or gone green. Those who don't particulalrly like the tories but won't vote labour seem to have abandoned the Lib Dems too. It's hard to imagine the set of people who have transferred their vote from Lib dem to UKIP given the massive disparity in policies. But they must exist to some extent.

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 409 of 427 (728345)
05-27-2014 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by Modulous
05-23-2014 4:58 PM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
Mod writes:
Local councils don't have influence on foreign affairs, European policy or immigration. So why?
Firstly - I'm not sure most UKIP voters have thought things through to the extent of considering what areas of policy influence individual votes in different elections have any bearing on.
Secondly - A lot of the UKIP bandwagon seems to be based on the notion that swathes of foreigners are being given free access to council houses, school places and other local resources ahead of born-and-bred-locals. These things are under local government control so presumably UKIP councillors would be relevant to exposing or stopping such practises (should such things be occurring)

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Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2014 8:33 PM Straggler has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 410 of 427 (728390)
05-27-2014 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 409 by Straggler
05-27-2014 9:51 AM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
And the prospects for next May? Reasonable for UKIP to eclipse LibDem as the third party?
I hear another hung parliament coming. Who gets to the queen first, Conservative/UKIP or Labour/LibDem coalitions?
You guys know how to put some drama into an election. Over here it's all clowns and smoke between TweedleDem and TweedleRep: no spoilers, just who steps on their dicks less often.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Straggler, posted 05-27-2014 9:51 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2014 5:00 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 411 of 427 (728394)
05-28-2014 5:00 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by AZPaul3
05-27-2014 8:33 PM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
AZ writes:
And the prospects for next May? Reasonable for UKIP to eclipse LibDem as the third party?
In terms of percentage of the vote - It's just possible. But due to the vagaries of the first past the post system that won't translate into actual Members of Parliament. The Lib Dems will still all but certainly be the third party in terms of number of MPs. Current projections suggest they will be down from the present 56 seats to 30 odd. Meanwhile UKIP will be doing well to get a seat or two.
It's not about how many vote for them across the country so much as how disparate or concentrated the vote is in each individual seat.
AZ writes:
I hear another hung parliament coming
Highly likely.
AZ writes:
Who gets to the queen first, Conservative/UKIP or Labour/LibDem coalitions?
A Lib/Lab agreement of some sort is looking the most likely I would say.
AZ writes:
You guys know how to put some drama into an election.
Well it has to be said that all this genuine multi-party politics is a relatively new phenomenon over here.
AZ writes:
Over here it's all clowns and smoke between TweedleDem and TweedleRep: no spoilers, just who steps on their dicks less often.
Your guys do have bigger dicks than ours......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by AZPaul3, posted 05-27-2014 8:33 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by AZPaul3, posted 05-28-2014 8:15 AM Straggler has not replied
 Message 413 by Modulous, posted 05-28-2014 9:06 PM Straggler has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 412 of 427 (728401)
05-28-2014 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by Straggler
05-28-2014 5:00 AM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
Your guys do have bigger dicks than ours......
Yah, we got some of the biggest dick heads known to the entire political world. You got that right.

This message is a reply to:
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Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 413 of 427 (728442)
05-28-2014 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Straggler
05-28-2014 5:00 AM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
In terms of percentage of the vote - It's just possible. But due to the vagaries of the first past the post system that won't translate into actual Members of Parliament. The Lib Dems will still all but certainly be the third party in terms of number of MPs. Current projections suggest they will be down from the present 56 seats to 30 odd. Meanwhile UKIP will be doing well to get a seat or two.
It's not about how many vote for them across the country so much as how disparate or concentrated the vote is in each individual seat.
Ironically, if the Lib Dems had succeeded in their plans for a voting system reform...
AZPaul3 writes:
TweedleDem
I like it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Straggler, posted 05-28-2014 5:00 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by Straggler, posted 05-30-2014 7:51 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 414 of 427 (728538)
05-30-2014 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by Modulous
05-28-2014 9:06 PM


Re: Coalition Conundrum
Mod writes:
Ironically, if the Lib Dems had succeeded in their plans for a voting system reform...
Good point. I don't know what the UKIP position is on voting reform (or even if they have one) but I wonder if they will become keener advocates of proportional representation if it suits them.

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 415 of 427 (747408)
01-15-2015 8:50 AM


Debates
So Cameron won't take part in general election TV debates unless the Green party get a place too. Such high minded principles....
Link
But are TV debates a good thing?
Do we want them?
Could they go ahead without Cameron (the empty chair approach)?
Personally I'd like to see them but am not convinced they will take place this year given Cameron's stance.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 417 by AZPaul3, posted 01-15-2015 10:18 AM Straggler has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


Message 416 of 427 (747411)
01-15-2015 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Straggler
01-15-2015 8:50 AM


Re: Debates
I'm not a fan of the debates. They're more about banal entertainment, than a worthwhile contribution to democracy.
Very amusing, though, to hear Mili and Clegg talking about peoples' democratic right to hear the debates. There is clearly no such constitutional right. We've had them once, at the choice of the parties - there's no written or common law right to them.
All that said, if they'd agree to Al Murray joining in, I'd be glued to it !

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 417 of 427 (747413)
01-15-2015 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 415 by Straggler
01-15-2015 8:50 AM


Re: Debates
But are TV debates a good thing?
No.
Do we want them?
You shouldn't, no.
Could they go ahead without Cameron (the empty chair approach)?
Sure, but why?
All political debates do is hype the pettiness of the pretty-boy effect. The voices at the podiums may be spouting policy issues but the press and the public are only looking at the color of the ties, which side the hair is parted on and waiting for some obvious gaff about which to laugh or become incensed. Debates titillate the press/public with cosmetic minutia using up vast amounts of ink, airtime and water-cooler gossip at the expense of discussion of the difficult issues that need public education and attention.
Ultimately, these leadership debates lead to what has happened to the office of President in the good old US of A. You get pretty-boy airheads centered on superficial political and personal appearances instead of the experienced statesmen centered on resolving the complex issues facing the nation and the world. This country has not had a challenging, reformist/activist executive since forever. It’s been all status quo and political self-interest.
OK, that’s not totally the fault of such debates. The real culprit has been the wholesale abandonment of the media’s responsibility to educate and inform society. I guess that’s what you get when half your society has below average intellect and the media makes most of its money by pandering to that lesser half. Televised political leadership debates just exacerbates the press/public’s disconnect from reality for superficiality.
Edited by AZPaul3, : wanted to.
Edited by AZPaul3, : more

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Straggler, posted 01-15-2015 8:50 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 418 by Straggler, posted 01-15-2015 10:35 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


(1)
Message 418 of 427 (747414)
01-15-2015 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by AZPaul3
01-15-2015 10:18 AM


Re: Debates
I take your point about Tv debates promoting style over substance. But "pretty boys"....? Have you see our political leaders?
Image

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by AZPaul3, posted 01-15-2015 10:18 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by AZPaul3, posted 01-15-2015 10:50 AM Straggler has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 419 of 427 (747418)
01-15-2015 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Straggler
01-15-2015 10:35 AM


Re: Debates
You haven't been doing it long enough. Have you seen ours?
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.
Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 420 of 427 (748733)
01-28-2015 5:05 PM


Greece
So then, Greece. They have voted in an overtly left wing government that is going to implement policies that will directly challenge the IMF, ECB and world bank and which will bring them into direct conflict with Germany specifically and the neo-liberal hegemony more generally.
It's certainly brave. But I can't help thinking that whatever the political, or even economic, rights and wrongs of this the forces against Greece are just too overwhelming for it to end well for them. I fear they will be made an example of by the powers that be determined to show what happens to those who reject the established economic consensus.
Interesting to see how it pans out and whether, as many may hope, Greece is the first small step towards a different kind of politics in Europe.
Greek election

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by RAZD, posted 01-28-2015 7:59 PM Straggler has replied

  
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