Where should there be "The right to refuse service"?

There's a federal law against discriminating for particular reasons.

Then that business should not offer their services to the public. If they just have to perform their services, then they can do them on a private basis. Ah yes, the last ditch effort: Self-martyrdom.

Yes, and True Christian^TM bakers actually could bake cakes for them.If a Christian who is opposed to gay marriage knows in their heart that they're not personally endorsing God's approval of the ceremony, because its obviously not recognized anyways, then they could just make the damned cake for the sake of the business. Its really not that big of a deal.And if it really came down to it, they could just make up some other reason why the were unable to bake the cake. A white lie, again, for the sake of the business. Again, not that big of a deal.That it has resorted to what it has, I'm betting ulterior motives.

None, "Jerks" is not a protected class of people.

Mod specifically addressed your point when he explained that you are being just as discriminatory as denying your service to "people wearing yarmulkes", which has been ruled as being discriminatory against Jews.

Talk about impossible to get across... Right, all you'd have to say is that your bakery doesn't provide cakes that have people wearing yarmulkes. And there you go: you're not, according to your view, denying anyone services. You're just not making a particular kind of cake.But this has been ruled to being discrimination.Just like you not making a "gay cake" is also discrimination.Its not that your point isn't being understood, its just that it is wrong.

How is this so hard for you to understand?Let's say that it is against someone's religion to promote a Jewish wedding and that they believe that they cannot make a cake for a Jewish wedding. So, to avoid discriminating against Jews directly, they come up with the idea that their business does not provide the service of making cakes that involve yarmulkes.You think that is not discriminatory because its not that they are denying any services to Jews, they just don't provide services that involve yarmulkes. Well, it turns out that the courts have ruled on this and found that denying a service that involves yarmulkes actually is discriminatory against Jews.And that makes sense, because who else wears yarmulkes besides Jews? Not providing services that involve yarmulkes is, in effect, not providing services to Jews.In the same way, your idea that the business just does not provide the service of make gay wedding cakes is actually discriminatory against gays.

You can always refuse to do your services. Nobody can make you run your business.You can easily get away with it: "Oh, I have a headache and don't feel like cutting hair right now." - "You know what? My scissors just went dull, I'm sorry but I can't cut your hair." - even: "I don't like the way you treated my wife, I'm not cutting your hair."The problem isn't that your not performing the service that you offer. The problem arises when you refuse to perform your service based on discrimination against a protected class of people.The baker could have easily gotten away with it, "Shit, we just ran out of flour, sorry but we can't make you a cake", but no, they didn't want to do that. They had to tell the customer that they refuse to make cakes for gay people. That is when it becomes a problem.ABE: "Racists" is not a protected class of people. You can refuse service to them.Edited by Catholic Scientist, : ABE

You should be able to not work when you don't want to. The barber is a human too. If he doesn't fell like cutting hair at the moment, then we shouldn't force him to.

Not when you own the company. We don't force bakers to make cakes and we don't force barbers to cut hair.They can not-make cakes and not-cut hair all they want. What they cannot do is discriminate against a protected class of people. What standards?There's a barber shop down the street from my house that I cannot go to. They close before I get off work and they aren't open on the weekends.There's no standard that forces them to operate their business at more convenient hours. There's nothing we can do to make them available to cut my hair. They don't have to if they don't want to.

Are you talking about the letter of the law now?You can always refuse to do your services. Nobody can make you run your business.The problem isn't that you're not performing the service that you offer. The problem arises when you refuse to perform your service based on discrimination against a protected class of people.

quote:

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Ontario's Human Rights Code, the first in Canada, was enacted in 1962.

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The Code prohibits actions that discriminate against people based on a protected ground in a protected social area.

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You have the exact same position as David Koresh did.The worst part about you, though, is that you only allow for this kind of religious freedom when you, personally, agree with it. If someone else, like a segregationalist, uses your same arguments then you're perfectly happy to deny them their religious freedom.Granted, you've already admitted that you're a hypocrite.

Then you are an enemy to religious freedom. It's meant to allow all religions, not just your personal favorite one.

Like letting a barber refrain from cutting your hair because he doesn't want to do it? Especially when they have money. Sure, we were talking about refusing service for good reasons.

Not in the slightest. You can believe whatever you want.