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Author | Topic: If God Ever Stopped Intervening In Nature.... | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Dogmafood Member (Idle past 370 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Is there nothing more to an absolute truth than being a demonstrable fact? The concept of truth means that our description of reality matches reality. A synonym for truth is fact. An absolute truth would be a perfect match that will never fall out of alignment. Somehow the concept of immutability comes into it. I would say that it is absolutely true that the process of fusion is taking place inside of stars at this moment. It will always be true that when I wrote these words the process was taking place.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 370 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Only because you proclaim this to be an absolute truth do I feel the need to point out that solipsistic possibilities are an issue for your absolutist stance. Except that it isn't because it is an impossibility. You need a more worthy alternative. At least something that is possible.
But at the same time evidence based conclusions are always tentative. New evidence might come to bear. The present conclusion might be wrong. In order for our description of reality to be wrong there must be a reality for it to be wrong in relation to.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 370 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Seriously, can't you believers in Absolute Truth come up with anything? If you are going to dismiss any example that requires the use of a definition then I don't see how we can. What kind of a truth would not be true by definition? It is like you are saying go ahead and make your argument but you can't use words.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What kind of a truth would not be true by definition? Use your imagination. It is easy to come up with statements that are not definitions (e.g. there is biological life on other planets) that may or may not be true, or whose truth we cannot demonstrate. In short, the issue is not that only defining statements can be true. The issue is your difficulty with coming up with non-definition statements that are true. True statements regarding the properties of a hydrogen atom are possible, but are those statements 'truth'? Those statements are not definitions.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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faceman Member (Idle past 3407 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
NoNukes writes: So what impression do you think examples like "True = True" and "2 + 2 = 4" make... That you absolutely cannot get around the Law of Identity, though I'm sure you have a song and dance for it no doubt. QM perhaps? That's usually the crutch you guys lean on.
NoNukes whiningly writes: ...other than showing your utter disdain for the participants. You just don't give a crap, do you? This is referred to as projection.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
faceman writes:
As I have said, A is A and 2 + 2 = 4 are true by definition. If I define "flerbend" as "a flying pig" that doesn't make flying pigs absolutely true.
How about these: A is A2 + 2 = 4 faceman writes:
I definitely would not call gravity an "absolute truth". The existence of gravity is an objective truth. Do you understand the difference between absolute and objective?
Gravity Do you think there aren't any absolute truths?
I'm just waiting for an example. If I asked for an example of an evil person and you said, "Frank," do you think I'd be impressed? Roll out your Hitler, your Dahmer, your Pol Pot.
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 370 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
It is easy to come up with statements that are not definitions (e.g. there is biological life on other planets) that may or may not be true, or whose truth we cannot demonstrate. But we are interested in truths that we can demonstrate The fact that reality must be real shouldn't be disqualified as an absolute truth just because it can be formatted as a definition. The definition comes after the truth is realized.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
I'm only dismising circular definitions.
If you are going to dismiss any example that requires the use of a definition.... ProtoTypical writes:
"God exists" is not true by definition. That's the kind of "absolute" I'm looking for.
What kind of a truth would not be true by definition?
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Dogmafood Member (Idle past 370 days) Posts: 1815 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
"God exists" is not true by definition. That's the kind of "absolute" I'm looking for. Reality exists.
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
ProtoTypical writes:
Reality exists objectively (whereas God does not). Do you understand the diference between objective and absolute?
Reality exists.
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faceman Member (Idle past 3407 days) Posts: 149 From: MN, USA Joined: |
As I have said, A is A and 2 + 2 = 4 are true by definition. Was an asteroid an asteroid 5 bya, before anyone was around to assign a definition to it? Or was it also at the same exact time not an asteroid?
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The fact that reality must be real shouldn't be disqualified as an absolute truth just because it can be formatted as a definition. That's right. Simply being formatted as a definition is not the issue. A concept that can only be formatted as a definition is the problem.
But we are interested in truths that we can demonstrate Is it the case that the only truths you can demonstrate are definitions? If so then that is a pretty significant limitation. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
duplicate
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
That you absolutely cannot get around the Law of Identity 'The law of Identity' I know what an identity is, yes. I haven't made any attempt to get around that. I have pointed out the lack of relevance of new "2 + 2 = 4" examples. Those things have been discussed and put aside as not interesting.
This is referred to as projection. Simply barging into a conversation without even bothering to look at the last few posts is a pretty concrete example of not caring. And that's what you routinely do and not what I did. So, no, my statement does not demonstrate projection. Instead I have put forth my observation that you are continuing the smug, condescending, and illogical performance that you display in every thread you blunder into. You seem to be a pretty smart guy. I am sure you could contribute to any discussion here if you made half of an effort to do anything other than show up and mouth off.Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
faceman writes:
An asteroid is objectively an asteroid regardless of definition. Do you understand the difference between absolute and objective?
Was an asteroid an asteroid 5 bya, before anyone was around to assign a definition to it?
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