Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
6 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Pascal's Wager - Any Way to Live a Life
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 31 of 126 (432966)
11-09-2007 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Phat
11-09-2007 6:18 AM


Re: Clarification of Pascals infamous Wager
Phat writes:
quote:
"God helps those who help themselves"
Actually you won't find this phrase or anything like it in the Bible.
Off topic here, I suppose, but that might make an interesting topic: Things That People Believe Are In The Bible That Make More Sense Than What's REALLY In The Bible.

“Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place”
-- Joseph Goebbels
-------------
Help scientific research in your spare time. No cost. No obligation.
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Phat, posted 11-09-2007 6:18 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Legend, posted 11-09-2007 3:35 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 84 of 126 (438488)
12-04-2007 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by rstrats
12-04-2007 8:21 PM


rstrats writes:
You can’t believe that something doesn’t exist and at the same time believe that that same something does exist. There has to be an instant when the one state of mind changes to the other.
That's quite obviously wrong. Between not believing and believing there's a whole lotta "I don't know". On the vast majority of subjects, for the vast majority of our lives, we're in the "I don't know" area.
Do you believe men walked on the moon? Probably. Do you believe Hitler escaped in a U-boat to Argentina? Probably not, but you probably don't have enough information to form a clear belief.
Do you believe my grandfather was in the Red Army? You don't know.

Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by rstrats, posted 12-04-2007 8:21 PM rstrats has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 112 of 126 (729338)
06-09-2014 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by rstrats
06-09-2014 8:53 AM


rstats writes:
jaywill writes:
A person convinced against his will, is of the same opinion still.
Why isn't that a contradictory statement?
Because a person "convinced" against his will isn't really convinced. He's only a professing believer, not an active believer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by rstrats, posted 06-09-2014 8:53 AM rstrats has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by rstrats, posted 06-09-2014 12:22 PM ringo has replied
 Message 117 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2014 7:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 114 of 126 (729342)
06-09-2014 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by rstrats
06-09-2014 12:22 PM


rstrats writes:
Does that mean that a woman who gets pregnant against her will isn't really pregnant?
Pregnancy is not a belief.
rstrats writes:
According to the dictionary, to be convinced is to be free of doubt and to feel certain about the truth of an issue.
That's why I put "convinced" in quotes. A person can claim to be convinced while not actually being free of doubt. People who profess a belief (or recant a belief) under duress are not expressing their true beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by rstrats, posted 06-09-2014 12:22 PM rstrats has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by rstrats, posted 06-09-2014 1:17 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 116 of 126 (729344)
06-09-2014 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by rstrats
06-09-2014 1:17 PM


jaywill writes:
Jaywill's quote didn't have quotation marks around convinced.
I put them there to clarify. jaywill and I seldom agree on anything but I think he'd agree with my explanation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by rstrats, posted 06-09-2014 1:17 PM rstrats has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 119 of 126 (729363)
06-10-2014 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Modulous
06-09-2014 7:17 PM


Modulous writes:
Against my will, however, I am convinced that God exists.
I don't think that's a case of being convinced against your will. I think it's a case of not knowing what your will is.
Modulous writes:
How can you say that I am not really convinced by am only a 'professing believer'?
How can you say you are convinced when you're trying not to be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Modulous, posted 06-09-2014 7:17 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 06-10-2014 11:59 AM ringo has replied
 Message 123 by Modulous, posted 06-10-2014 5:58 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 121 of 126 (729366)
06-10-2014 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Phat
06-10-2014 11:59 AM


Re: Wager Not What Ye Be Afraid To Lose
Phat writes:
Some folks would rather willfully not believe because they are unconvinced that if God existed He cared.
I don't think that's willful disbelief. It's more like not going to the casino because you're unlikely to come out ahead.
Somebody might win but it's wishful thinking to believe it will be you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 06-10-2014 11:59 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 125 of 126 (729404)
06-11-2014 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by Modulous
06-10-2014 5:58 PM


Modulous writes:
Do you intend to supply an argument as to why your opinion should be given consideration, or are you happy just to serve it on the rocks like that?
jaywill quoted a saying and I explained to rstrats what it means. I don't feel obligated to prove the validity of the saying.
Modulous writes:
Why not explain why 'trying not to be convinced' prohibits absolutely being caused to firmly believe something? I can see it inhibiting it - but prohibiting it?
Did I say "prohibit"? "Inhibit" works for me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Modulous, posted 06-10-2014 5:58 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Modulous, posted 06-11-2014 6:45 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024