Summations Only

Caricatured, certainly, but nothing I read or hear from the gun lobby leads me to believe otherwise.It would be foolish to suggest that widespread gun ownership does not cause innocent deaths. It demonstrably does.Is there a number which would be too high a price to pay, for a right for people to carry guns ? Or is my caricature in fact correct ?

I don't think there's any way to safely shoot at people in a crowded city.

Agreed. Nor chase the perps at high speed.

Not all gun enthusiasts are part of the lobby. It would be foolish to say that widespread ownership, alone, causes innocent deaths.Last time I looked, the correlation between gun ownership and innocent deaths wasn't clear enough to establish a cause. Not only is the data noisy, there's weird outliers that don't make sense.And would you count a suicide as "innocent"? Because I wouldn't. And that removes quite a large portion of them. Sure, but we're nowhere near it. No. You said "no amount" and obviously 100% wouldn't work But what are we really talking about here in the U.S., ~30,000 deaths per year from a gun. Of which, ~20,000 are suicide and ~10,000 are homicide.So, like 0.003% of our population is being innocently killed by guns.Meanwhile, ~500,000 died from heart disease, and another ~500,000 from cancer. Hell, ~50,000 people died from the flu and pneumonia.Innocent gun deaths is practically nothing.

Yeah, one of the rules is that you don't do that.

So if you lve in a crowded city where you might "need" a gun to defend youself, you can't.

Yup, what kind of idiot wants to live in a crowded city?

The same kind of idiot who wants a gun to defend himself, apparently.

I think you'll find that most of the honest law-abiding people that live in crowded cities are for more strict gun control laws. Places like New York City and Chicago have them enacted.You'll have your predators (like robbers and burglars) that will want to have guns, but they're not going to follow the laws anyways, even the gun ones. Wait, are you talking about something in particular?

I don't think so. In the case of suicide there's some very convincing evidence that access to an easy method is causal. For example when the UK converted to Natural Gas the common suicide method of 'sticking you head in the oven' no longer worked because carbon monoxide wasn't in it and suicides reduced. Reducing paracetamol (acetaminophen, Tylenol) to 16 tablets per person and individually wrapping them reduced suicide deaths by 43% using them. And from the wiki Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

How is suicide an innocent death?

And yet it seems like most of the gun-related deaths are in the cities. Somebody must have forgotten their safety training.

Yeah, they're called "criminals".It goes to show that passing a bunch of gun laws doesn't actually stop people from using guns.

Um... somebody earlier was pointing out all the wonderful usage of guns against criminals. Isn't blazing away at criminals in cities dangerous?Edited by ringo, : No reason given.

In a crowded city you should protect yourself with a pair of specially trained tigers.Safety first!