|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
vimesey Member (Idle past 101 days) Posts: 1398 From: Birmingham, England Joined:
|
Well, that was awfully prejudiced. Caricatured, certainly, but nothing I read or hear from the gun lobby leads me to believe otherwise. It would be foolish to suggest that widespread gun ownership does not cause innocent deaths. It demonstrably does. Is there a number which would be too high a price to pay, for a right for people to carry guns ? Or is my caricature in fact correct ?Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
|
Catholic Scientist writes:
I don't think there's any way to safely shoot at people in a crowded city.
Gun safety is both easy and effective if you follow the rules.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
1.61803 Member (Idle past 1532 days) Posts: 2928 From: Lone Star State USA Joined:
|
Ringo writes: I don't think there's any way to safely shoot at people in a crowded city. Agreed. Nor chase the perps at high speed. "You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Caricatured, certainly, but nothing I read or hear from the gun lobby leads me to believe otherwise. Not all gun enthusiasts are part of the lobby.
It would be foolish to suggest that widespread gun ownership does not cause innocent deaths. It would be foolish to say that widespread ownership, alone, causes innocent deaths. Last time I looked, the correlation between gun ownership and innocent deaths wasn't clear enough to establish a cause. Not only is the data noisy, there's weird outliers that don't make sense. And would you count a suicide as "innocent"? Because I wouldn't. And that removes quite a large portion of them.
Is there a number which would be too high a price to pay, for a right for people to carry guns ? Sure, but we're nowhere near it.
Or is my caricature in fact correct ? No. You said "no amount" and obviously 100% wouldn't work But what are we really talking about here in the U.S., ~30,000 deaths per year from a gun. Of which, ~20,000 are suicide and ~10,000 are homicide. So, like 0.003% of our population is being innocently killed by guns. Meanwhile, ~500,000 died from heart disease, and another ~500,000 from cancer. Hell, ~50,000 people died from the flu and pneumonia. Innocent gun deaths is practically nothing.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Catholic Scientist writes:
I don't think there's any way to safely shoot at people in a crowded city. Gun safety is both easy and effective if you follow the rules. Yeah, one of the rules is that you don't do that.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
So if you lve in a crowded city where you might "need" a gun to defend youself, you can't.
ringo writes:
Yeah, one of the rules is that you don't do that. I don't think there's any way to safely shoot at people in a crowded city.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
So if you lve in a crowded city where you might "need" a gun to defend youself, you can't. Yup, what kind of idiot wants to live in a crowded city?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
The same kind of idiot who wants a gun to defend himself, apparently.
Yup, what kind of idiot wants to live in a crowded city?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Catholic Scientist writes:
The same kind of idiot who wants a gun to defend himself, Yup, what kind of idiot wants to live in a crowded city? I think you'll find that most of the honest law-abiding people that live in crowded cities are for more strict gun control laws. Places like New York City and Chicago have them enacted. You'll have your predators (like robbers and burglars) that will want to have guns, but they're not going to follow the laws anyways, even the gun ones.
apparently Wait, are you talking about something in particular?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9512 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
CS writes: It would be foolish to say that widespread ownership, alone, causes innocent deaths. I don't think so. In the case of suicide there's some very convincing evidence that access to an easy method is causal. For example when the UK converted to Natural Gas the common suicide method of 'sticking you head in the oven' no longer worked because carbon monoxide wasn't in it and suicides reduced. Reducing paracetamol (acetaminophen, Tylenol) to 16 tablets per person and individually wrapping them reduced suicide deaths by 43% using them. And from the wiki
In the United States, numerous studies have concluded that firearm access is associated with increased suicide risk.[22] Because guns are quick and more lethal than other suicide means (about 85% of attempts with a firearm are fatal, a much higher case fatality rate than for other methods), they are often a major driver of suicide rates.[23][24] Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed. Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
In the case of suicide How is suicide an innocent death?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
And yet it seems like most of the gun-related deaths are in the cities. Somebody must have forgotten their safety training.
I think you'll find that most of the honest law-abiding people that live in crowded cities are for more strict gun control laws.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
And yet it seems like most of the gun-related deaths are in the cities. Somebody must have forgotten their safety training. Yeah, they're called "criminals". It goes to show that passing a bunch of gun laws doesn't actually stop people from using guns.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Catholic Scientist writes:
Um... somebody earlier was pointing out all the wonderful usage of guns against criminals. Isn't blazing away at criminals in cities dangerous? Yeah, they're called "criminals". Edited by ringo, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 312 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I don't think there's any way to safely shoot at people in a crowded city. In a crowded city you should protect yourself with a pair of specially trained tigers. Safety first!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024