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Author Topic:   Some water measurements for the Flood
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 76 of 276 (729922)
06-21-2014 6:50 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
06-21-2014 6:29 PM


Re: why not miracle
Ok, you've got the gist of it i suppose. Now, how did you go about learning that rain comes from evaporated water?

Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:56 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 77 of 276 (729923)
06-21-2014 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Faith
06-21-2014 6:24 PM


Re: why not miracle
Ah ye of little faith. A few hundred devoted prayer warriors could turn the Mojave into a lush green paradise.

And if you announced your intentions in advance, it would convince the world of the truth of Christianity. I'd get on that if I were you. But first, buy up as much of the Mojave desert as you can afford.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:55 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 78 of 276 (729924)
06-21-2014 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Dr Adequate
06-21-2014 6:51 PM


Re: why not miracle
The hard part would be getting together that many dedicated prayer warriors to go hang out on the Mojave.

ABE: But I don't have any great desire to convince people of the truth of Christianity by such means. As Jesus told the rich man in Hell, his brothers had Moses and the Prophets for that purpose and even if someone came back from the dead they wouldn't be convinced. You'd find some way of explaining away the prayer effect.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-21-2014 6:51 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-21-2014 7:27 PM Faith has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 79 of 276 (729925)
06-21-2014 6:56 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by hooah212002
06-21-2014 6:50 PM


Re: why not miracle
You guys are really hilarious. I had the same education everybody else gets about such things.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 6:50 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 7:00 PM Faith has responded

    
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 80 of 276 (729926)
06-21-2014 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Faith
06-21-2014 6:56 PM


Re: why not miracle
I'm sorry Faith, but you continually prove that you see things in a far different way than "everybody else" and have shown all of us that whatever education you have had either did not stick or was insufficient.

I tried to ask you simple questions in a non-snarky manner and I would appreciate the same in response. I want to make certain that you don't accuse me of speaking gibberish for merely explaining things properly.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 7:02 PM hooah212002 has responded
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 7:25 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 81 of 276 (729927)
06-21-2014 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by hooah212002
06-21-2014 7:00 PM


Re: why not miracle
I was TOLD that rain comes from evaporated water. That's what teachers do. They explain that water evaporates and rises, condenses back into water and falls. You can see the steam rising from the teakettle if you want proof. You can also see it condense on the ceiling in the shower. From thence it may or may not drip back down on you.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 7:00 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 8:32 PM Faith has responded

    
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5396
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 82 of 276 (729928)
06-21-2014 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Faith
06-21-2014 6:24 PM


Re: why not miracle
A few thousand horsepower behind big pumps, and a bunch of 48-inch steel pipe would do it a lot quicker. Arizona would just have to buy Lake Superior. Or you could have the Sierra Nevada moved to go through Winnemucca, so the clouds pile up east of you.

Nothing fails like prayer, Faith.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:24 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 7:16 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 83 of 276 (729929)
06-21-2014 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Coragyps
06-21-2014 7:10 PM


Re: why not miracle
Prayer has accomplished much for me personally.

However, I will agree that the answer to the prayers of the few hundred prayer warriors would probably include "secondary" or "proximate" means for the purpose of fulfilling our objective of turning desert into lush fertile land. Not moving the Sierra or Lake Superior, but coming up with irrigation systems, extensive green houses and that sort of thing. God also inspires creative solutions to problems.

Prayer, however, by fervent faithful prayer warriors, would most certainly get a lot more rain out of those clouds than they are normally inclined to bestow.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Coragyps, posted 06-21-2014 7:10 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by jar, posted 06-21-2014 8:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 84 of 276 (729930)
06-21-2014 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by hooah212002
06-21-2014 7:00 PM


Re: why not miracle
And the way I "see things differently" isn't by denying such things as the water cycle as we now experience it but only by believing what the Bible seems to indicate about how all that functioned quite differently before the Flood.

We can gather from Genesis 1:7 that the original Creation seems to have had a store of "waters" in the atmosphere quite a bit more extensive than our clouds contain since the Flood. We also gather that the land was watered by a "mist" rather than by rain, which leads us to infer that the first rain was that forty days and nights of same that began the Flood. The novelty of a rainbow after the Flood also contributes to the impression that rain was not part of the original Creation. We also gather that there were no deserts, that the whole Earth was lush and green. No high mountains, no snow and ice.

I don't have a different view of how the water cycle behaves now, the difference is that I believe things were most probably quite different before the Flood with respect to how all that operated.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 7:00 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Coragyps, posted 06-21-2014 7:52 PM Faith has responded
 Message 91 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 8:40 PM Faith has responded
 Message 110 by NoNukes, posted 06-22-2014 11:27 AM Faith has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 85 of 276 (729931)
06-21-2014 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Faith
06-21-2014 6:55 PM


Re: why not miracle
The hard part would be getting together that many dedicated prayer warriors to go hang out on the Mojave.

Why would they have to be there? Is the power of prayer subject to the inverse square law.

ABE: But I don't have any great desire to convince people of the truth of Christianity by such means. As Jesus told the rich man in Hell, his brothers had Moses and the Prophets for that purpose and even if someone came back from the dead they wouldn't be convinced. You'd find some way of explaining away the prayer effect.

I can't think of one now, what makes you suppose I'd be able to subsequently?

In any case, however ineffective you think actual miracles would be in converting people, they must surely be more effective than the current most potent weapon in the evangelical armory, namely an idiot in a cheap suit giving away badly-written pamphlets. Now since you haven't given up on him, it would be premature for you to give up on making the desert bloom. That would, in my judgement, work even better.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 6:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 8:21 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5396
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 86 of 276 (729932)
06-21-2014 7:52 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
06-21-2014 7:25 PM


Re: why not miracle
My gathering skills just aren't up to the task of collecting that much from the Book of Genesis.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 7:25 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 8:13 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 87 of 276 (729933)
06-21-2014 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Coragyps
06-21-2014 7:52 PM


Re: why not miracle
The problem isn't your gathering skills, it's your lack of belief.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Coragyps, posted 06-21-2014 7:52 PM Coragyps has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 88 of 276 (729934)
06-21-2014 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Dr Adequate
06-21-2014 7:27 PM


Re: why not miracle
True, prayer can be effective from across the world if necessary. But we're trying to change the climate of a particular location and I figure the people who are praying for it should have a stake in it if they are going to be effective at that.

As for the idea that miracles would convert people, I think what Jesus said to the rich man makes the point. If you don't believe Moses and the Prophets, meaning the scriptures, which report many miracles in both Old and New Testaments, all intended to lead you to belief, then you aren't going to believe a miracle you see with your own eyes either.

How would you explain it away? Oh you'd just figure it was a temporary cyclical change in the weather or something like that. Something to marvel at but nothing excessively out of the normal range of things. It would be hard to prove otherwise after all. Just a temporary increase in the rain, a boon for the farmers etc. Or maybe it's a more lasting change, connected to global warming.

ABE: As for the sad man in the cheap suit, oh poor old Holy Hubert. I never stopped to listen to him. But God doesn't make it easy for intellectuals and rich snobs or people who know how to spell either.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-21-2014 7:27 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-21-2014 10:36 PM Faith has responded

    
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 18 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 89 of 276 (729935)
06-21-2014 8:32 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
06-21-2014 7:02 PM


Re: why not miracle
I was TOLD that rain comes from evaporated water.

Ok. Why do you believe it (I would prefer to say accept it as true)? Why do you accept that it works on a macro scale when all you can actually see for yourself is what occurs on such a small scale?


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 7:02 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 06-21-2014 8:39 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32158
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 90 of 276 (729936)
06-21-2014 8:39 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by hooah212002
06-21-2014 8:32 PM


Re: why not miracle
I was always a Good Girl who believed what my teachers taught me, and I guess the illustrations in the text books too -- my favorite kind of assignment was to draw the diagrams they presented. Why shouldn't I have believed them? What ARE you getting at?

ABE: And I guess it made sense too. You know, the sun heats up the ocean or the wet ground and turns it to vapor, like the heat on the stove gets the steam rising from the boiling water, and it goes on rising until the cooler higher air condenses it, which for some reason forms clouds that contain it instead of instant rain. The hardest part to explain may be why it stays in the clouds.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 8:32 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by hooah212002, posted 06-21-2014 8:43 PM Faith has responded

    
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