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Author Topic:   Some water measurements for the Flood
Faith
Member
Posts: 32184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 151 of 276 (730007)
06-22-2014 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by hooah212002
06-22-2014 10:34 PM


Re: why not miracle
I was just making a general statement that I feel I've made my case well enough. But if you want a list perhaps you should tell me what sort of facts you think I've left out, in support of what claim I've made, and then I'll try to make a list.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by hooah212002, posted 06-22-2014 10:34 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by hooah212002, posted 06-22-2014 10:56 PM Faith has responded

    
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 19 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 152 of 276 (730008)
06-22-2014 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Faith
06-22-2014 10:38 PM


Working with real data
you should tell me what sort of facts you think I've left out,

All of them in regards to the flood.

in support of what claim I've made

All of them in regards to the flood.

It is obvious you have data we are not privy to, studied in a manner we are also not privy to so could you help us out in that regard so we can also partake in the discussion you are having?

Easy peasy, just create a list of facts that support your position. A sort of "end all, be all" list that EvC can reference every time we talk about the flood with you so we can stop asking you for it and you can insteda just point back to this post and say "here you go, here is my evidence".

No excuses, Faith. Just the list. No faith. No belief. No bible interpretations. Facts and facts only. Facts that each and every one of us can test equally that don't rely on your particular version of the bible or reading thereof.

No excuses and no accusations. How I read the bible is not part of this discussion, nor is how you read the bible. Facts, facts facts. And facts are not open for interpretation.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 10:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 11:08 PM hooah212002 has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 153 of 276 (730009)
06-22-2014 11:08 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by hooah212002
06-22-2014 10:56 PM


Re: Working with real data
All of them in regards to the Flood.

Now I think you are asking for something that's off topic in this thread. This thread is about the rain measurements I made to see if the Biblical methods of producing the water provided enough to cover the mountains. That much was accomplished early on as the rain alone turned out to be enough even without the fountains of the deep, so there was plenty of water to do the job. In any case, the thread isn't about proving the Flood as such though that seems to be what you are asking for.

Are there facts you think I've left out in this discussion about the amount of water that you want me to provide?

Or perhaps facts in support of particular statements I've made in the thread whether on topic or not?

The huge numbers of fossils and the strata of the Geologic Column are otherwise the facts I point to in proof of the Flood. Also the generally disheveled appearance of the planet. I know that isn't going to make you happy but they are facts that do support the Flood.

In short, what do you want?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by hooah212002, posted 06-22-2014 10:56 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by hooah212002, posted 06-22-2014 11:19 PM Faith has responded
 Message 160 by JonF, posted 06-23-2014 8:15 AM Faith has responded

    
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 19 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 154 of 276 (730010)
06-22-2014 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
06-22-2014 11:08 PM


Re: Working with real data
I asked you for a list, Faith. It was a simple request. It doesn't matter what the topic is because "Faith" and your essence overflows all of EvC and that makes my request relevant. You've succeeded at becoming a presence here and what I am asking will assist all future threads you are involved in.

A list, Faith. No more excuses. Where is your data?

Are there facts you think I've left out in this discussion about the amount of water that you want me to provide?

All of them in regards to your flood.

The huge numbers of fossils and the strata of the Geologic Column are otherwise the facts I point to in proof of the Flood.

I'm sorry, Faith. the geologic column and fossils actually dispute your claim. can you show me how I am wrong without just telling me I read the bible wrong? Can you use a method that we all can use? One that only uses the data available, not faith and belief?

If the geologic column and fossils showed what you say, you wouldn't be here, would you?

If the geologic column and fossils showed what you say, yours wouldn't be a position that is met with such resistance, would it? We would all accept it and you would be right at home talking about it here.

I know that isn't going to make you happy but they are facts that do support the Flood.

My children make me happy, Faith. I am not here to be happy. I am here to learn and hopefully help others learn. If yours is the correct worldview, I want you to convince me. But I am a person that needs evidence. Can you help me here?

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 11:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:49 AM hooah212002 has responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 155 of 276 (730011)
06-23-2014 12:49 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by hooah212002
06-22-2014 11:19 PM


The List

    I. The Geologic Column:

    A. The strata
    1) their flat horizontality which is proof of their having been laid down in water; ORIGINAL horizontality although it is still visible in many places.
    2) their immense proportions, both vertical and horizontal, which is consistent with the worldwide proportion of the Flood. Many hundreds of feet thick, horizontal extension across whole continents in some cases, many states in the US
    3) The fact that there are places where you can see the strata from the supposed Cambrian to the supposed Tertiary with their horizontality intact, no sign of tectonic or other kind of disturbance throughout that whole block, consistent with rapid deposition rather than deposition over hundreds of millions of years. Grand Canyon / Grand Staircase.
    a) The absence of any visible difference in wear and tear from the lowest or oldest to the most recent or highest is consistent with deposition in a short period rather than over hundreds of millions of years.
    b) It can be generally shown that this pattern persists wherever you find strata, that the tectonic and other disturbances can be shown to have occurred after they were in place. That is, the strata are folded and buckled as a block. There is only one exception that I know of, which is the horizontal layer or two sometimes found atop a buckled block of strata, known as an angular unconformity, which I believe are is caused by buckling of the lower strata beneath the upper after all are in place. This is an interpretive point but it needs to be mentioned. There are also places where the strata are in such disarray it is hard to tell what happened first but the general pattern is that the disturbance can be shown to have occurred to them as a block rather than individually during the laying-down period.
    4) The fact that while the strata are pretty consistent in their order from one place to another there are absences of some of them at some locations which evolutionists call unconformities because according to their theory they belong in that time slot and so must simply have been eroded away. But this is better evidence for a less orderly laying down which would be expected of the Flood.

    B. The fossils
    1) The huge quantity of fossils is consistent with the purpose of the Flood, to destroy all life on earth.
    2) The general consistency of the condition of the fossils from bottom to top of the Geologic Column, which evidences rapid deposition under uniform conditions, which would have been ideal for fossilization in the Flood.
    3) The general ubiquity of the marine fossils throughout the strata, and found in the highest mountains as well as everywhere else, consistent with deposition by ocean water.
    4) The fact that many creatures are buried together en masse which of course is consistent with the Flood and not normal deaths over hundreds of millions of years.
    5) The oddness of the fossils in comparison to living things today
    a) Gigantic creatures that may suggest a different kind of environment than we have today (more oxygen in the atmosphere suggested on one creationist site).
    b) Creature, notably the dinosaur and other gigantic reptiles, that have since completely died out, probably because the post-Flood environment couldn't sustain them.
    c) Variations of species known today that are recognizably different from breeds or species of the same that we have today though clearly the same species: this should be expected of a recent period of time that there would be variations that are just a little different from today's, which is in the nature of genetic microevolution

    II. The disheveled look of the planet. There are places that look from a great height to have been washed over by water but I'd have to find pictures. Also the generally tumble-down condition of many places, piles of rubble, etc. This needs fleshing out.

    III. The rather small amount of eroded material at the foot of mountains, various formations such as the monuments and hoodoos of the Southwest, consistent with a young earth rather than the hundreds of millions of years ascribed by establishment geology. This may belong up in the strata section, have to think about it.

    IV. The huge "prehistoric" lakes, Lahontan, Bonneville, Missoula, etc., are the sort of thing that should be expected to remain after the Flood. Then tectonic movement, which seems to have occurred at the end of the Flood, after all the strata were in place that is, is arguably the cause of their draining, in the case of Missoula quite catastrophically, leaving the record of the event in the Badlands Scablands.

    That's all I have energy for right now.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by hooah212002, posted 06-22-2014 11:19 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by hooah212002, posted 06-23-2014 1:19 AM Faith has responded
 Message 162 by Coragyps, posted 06-23-2014 9:32 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 19 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 156 of 276 (730012)
06-23-2014 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
06-23-2014 12:49 AM


Re: The List
I have a problem with....number 1.

1) their flat horizontality which is proof of their having been laid down in water;

It's not all perfectly flat and horizontal, is it? If we roam the earth, we don't find perfectly laid down horizontal rocks a few layers down. Sure, some of it is in some places. But not everywhere.

2) their immense proportions, both vertical and horizontal, which is consistent with the worldwide proportion of the Flood.

Erm...what immense proportions? What proportion is immense? Are you saying that, since there is lots of rocks, that is evidence of a flood?

3) The fact that there are places where you can see the strata from the supposed Cambrian to the supposed Tertiary with their horizontality intact, no sign of tectonic or other kind of disturbance throughout that whole block, consistent with rapid deposition rather than deposition over hundreds of millions of years.

This sounds cool. Where is it?

a) The absence of any visible difference in wear and tear from the lowest or oldest to the most recent or highest is consistent with deposition in a short period rather than over hundreds of millions of years.

What?

I have to stop there and get some clarification before I go on. Perhaps someone else can continue or make sense of it all.

Please, Faith. I am genuinely interested so I beg you not to belittle me and name call instead of answering my questions. I want to have an honest discussion here.


Organic life is nothing but a genetic mutation, an accident. Your lives are measured in years and decades. You wither and die. We are eternal, the pinnacle of evolution and existence. Before us, you are nothing. Your extinction is inevitable. We are the end of everything.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:49 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 1:24 AM hooah212002 has not yet responded
 Message 158 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-23-2014 3:57 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 163 by herebedragons, posted 06-23-2014 9:42 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply
 Message 172 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 11:14 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 32184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 157 of 276 (730013)
06-23-2014 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by hooah212002
06-23-2014 1:19 AM


Re: The List
I have a problem with....number 1.

1) their flat horizontality which is proof of their having been laid down in water;

It's not all perfectly flat and horizontal, is it? If we roam the earth, we don't find perfectly laid down horizontal rocks a few layers down. Sure, some of it is in some places. But not everywhere.

I'll fix these things later. First of all of course I mean ORIGINAL horizontality because they WERE all laid down in water. The disturbances that have buckled and tilted them and so on came after the entire block was laid down.

I'm too tired to continue though.

ABE: I added a few changes.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by hooah212002, posted 06-23-2014 1:19 AM hooah212002 has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 16097
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 158 of 276 (730015)
06-23-2014 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by hooah212002
06-23-2014 1:19 AM


Re: The List
If you've been away for a while ... this is not the first thread on which Faith has discussed the Flood and her strange misapprehensions about geology. You might want to use the Search function to see the back catalog of her greatest hits.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by hooah212002, posted 06-23-2014 1:19 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 159 of 276 (730018)
06-23-2014 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Faith
06-22-2014 9:50 PM


Re: why not miracle
The water canopy theory of creationists is about water VAPOR, a LOT of it, suspended in the atmosphere, which is exactly the situation with clouds.

Not a single reference to the text in the whole post. Just some citations to Creationist stuff. Clouds don't open and close, so water from the water canopy cannot be just like clouds. Further, the location of the separated waters is in heaven according to Genesis. And there is not a single mention of the water canopy in the Flood account. That's a complete extrapolation by Creationists. It's just non textual acknowledgement that a source of water is necessary.

The term floodgates is used elsewhere in the Bible making it clear that floodgates is not some expression for access to the atmosphere. See Malachi 3 and 2 Kings 2. The term cannot possible mean just cloud like access to the atmosphere.

Only after seeing that the water canopy is non-Biblical can we also note that the water canopy if real would have made hell on earth. I understand that you say you don't give a hoot about what scientists says, but that's not quite true is it? You do acknowledge that the water could not have been removed by evaporation.

Tying this back to the OP, the OP is seen as a meaningless exercise in arithmetic because the flood as described in Genesis was miraculous. Absent a miracle there is no basis for extrapolating a single hours rainfall to a 40 day period. Such a rainfall would be impossible without a miracle.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:50 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 10:30 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5036
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 160 of 276 (730019)
06-23-2014 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
06-22-2014 11:08 PM


Re: Working with real data
This thread is about the rain measurements I made to see if the Biblical methods of producing the water provided enough to cover the mountains.

You have made no measurements. You made a calculation based on the risibly false assumption of infinite water available to produce rain.

Since you have no support for that assumption, your calculation is meaningless.

Things weren't all that different back then Life as we know it existed. Therefore the laws of physics and chemistry were the same as now, and the environment (temperature, pressure, ...) was about the same. Therefore your infinite water supply assumption is incompatible with life as we know it and can be (and has been) discarded.

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 11:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 10:40 AM JonF has responded

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1513
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 161 of 276 (730020)
06-23-2014 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by Faith
06-22-2014 9:50 PM


Re: why not miracle
The windows of heaven being opened was the condensing of the VAPOR of the "canopy" into rain:

I can't really speak for NoNukes, but it seems as if he is asking what textual support do you have for this idea? How does the canopy idea come from scripture?

For my part, I wonder how you have decided that "windows of heaven" is a metaphor for condensation of water vapor. The verses in question read:

quote:
Gen 1:6-8 (NKJV)
Then God said, “Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.” Thus God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament; and it was so. And God called the firmament Heaven.

Gen 7:11b - 12 (NKJV)
..., on that day all the fountains of the deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was on the earth forty days and forty nights.


A plain, simple reading indicates that there was water above Heaven and water below Heaven. The firmament, or Heaven, separated these bodies of water. The "windows" would have been holding back the waters above Heaven and when they were opened, the water poured out as rain.

So, how do you decide that "windows of heaven" is a metaphor for condensation?

Since when is the portion of our atmosphere between the surface of the earth and the clouds called Heaven?

You seem to think the "fountains of the deep" were a literal, natural phenomenon. Why then is "windows of heaven" a metaphor that refers to something that is not obvious from a plain and simple reading of the text?

How is the canopy idea supported textually? I say it is not supported by the text, in fact, a plain, simple reading of the text indicates something completely different.

Unless you can provide support from the text for the canopy idea, we would have to rely on sources outside of the Bible to determine if it is reasonably viable or not. I think it has been clearly demonstrated that a vapor canopy could not possibly support enough water vapor to account for more than a very, very modest rise in sea level (on the order of inches, not feet).

How about start with calculations that would determine the maximum amount of water that could be held in the atmosphere and figure how much rain that could produce over a forty day period and how much it would raise sea level. Then the rest would have to come from the "fountains of the deep."

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 9:50 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5396
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 162 of 276 (730021)
06-23-2014 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
06-23-2014 12:49 AM


Re: The List
4) The fact that many creatures are buried together en masse which of course is consistent with the Flood and not normal deaths over hundreds of millions of years.
5) The oddness of the fossils in comparison to living things today

Faith. Really?

You never seem to give a substantive reply: why is there never a crab fossil in a trilobite bed, or a trilobite fossil in among crab fossils? Why is there never a fossil of a large mammal - say, Great Dane size or bigger - in a deposit of dinosaur bones, or vice versa? Why never a Dimetrodon or Seymouria fossil with a dinosaur (or mammal) fossil?

Don't make me start on rugose and scleratinian corals, or Wattieza and cypress trees, or...........


"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-23-2014 12:49 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1513
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 163 of 276 (730022)
06-23-2014 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by hooah212002
06-23-2014 1:19 AM


Re: The List
It's not all perfectly flat and horizontal, is it?

Oh, good grief. Don't get her started on that! I tried to point that out at the Depositional Models of Sea Transgressions/Regressions - Walther's Law but she apparently has a different idea than I do about what flat, horizontal and parallel mean.

A small sampling:

Message 330

Message 332

Message 412

It's a really long thread, but you could browse through it to see what all has been discussed rather recently.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by hooah212002, posted 06-23-2014 1:19 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
herebedragons
Member
Posts: 1513
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 164 of 276 (730025)
06-23-2014 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by Faith
06-22-2014 6:34 PM


Re: why not miracle
It would be hard enough, and probably impossible really, to get a few hundred people praying with enough consistency and fervency to make the Mojave desert bloom,

Have you heard of Honi the circle maker? One man who prayed for rain and it did. Oh, and Elijah, who was one man who prayed for rain and it did. Why do you need hundreds of people?

but when you are talking about praying to solve the problem of millions of people displaced by evil political machinations in the name of militant Islam, that would take millions of prayer warriors praying around the clock, a tall order.

How do you support this textually? How did you decide that prayer needs to be cumulative, as if it needs to build up power?

Another thing to point out, have you not read

quote:
Luke 13:1-5 (CEB)
Some who were present on that occasion told Jesus about the Galileans whom Pilate had killed while they were offering sacrifices. He replied, “Do you think the suffering of these Galileans proves that they were more sinful than all the other Galileans? No, I tell you, but unless you change your hearts and lives, you will die just as they did. What about those eighteen people who were killed when the tower of Siloam fell on them? Do you think that they were more guilty of wrongdoing than everyone else who lives in Jerusalem? No, I tell you, but unless you change your hearts and lives, you will die just as they did.”

and

quote:
Matt 5:44 - 45 (CEB)
But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who harass you so that you will be acting as children of your Father who is in heaven. He makes the sun rise on both the evil and the good and sends rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.

and

quote:
John 9:1-3 (CEB)
As Jesus walked along, he saw a man who was blind from birth. Jesus’ disciples asked, “Rabbi, who sinned so that he was born blind, this man or his parents?” Jesus answered, “Neither he nor his parents. This happened so that God’s mighty works might be displayed in him.

Jesus dispels the myth that suffering is simply the result of sin. Bad things happen to all of us, suffering, ie. life, is common to us all. Where do you get the idea that Las Vegas is a desert because of wickedness? Or that it would be virtually impossible for God to work a miracle in the Mojave desert because of the wickedness of Las Vegas?

Remember, Elijah was one man among hundreds of priests of Baal and the entire nation of people had turned to wickedness, but God answered his prayer. Could not one man stand in the midst of Las Vegas and pray for God to work a miracle?

Why do you depart from the simple and plain reading of the Bible and suggest that it would take hundreds or thousands of round-the-clock prayers to work a miracle?

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Faith, posted 06-22-2014 6:34 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 32184
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 165 of 276 (730026)
06-23-2014 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by NoNukes
06-23-2014 8:13 AM


Re: why not miracle
I really don't get why you think repeating the text is necessary every time I refer to these phenomena but here it is:


Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.

This is understood to refer to a vapor canopy by the creationists I'm most familiar with. There's nothing nonbiblical about such an interpretation, it's just that you prefer your interpretation so you call yours the biblical one. It makes perfect sense to think of a source of rain ion the atmosphere as a body of vapor. You can't just decide that your interpretation is correct against all those of a different understanding who don't regard the source of water as miraculous. You may prefer your interpretation but it's no more biblical than theirs so you can't use it the way you are doing to make it the standard from which others deviate.

My argument that the Flood water could not have been removed by evaporation has to do with the AMOUNT of it. Why you make anything else out of that I don't know but you are awfully certain and vituperative about a mere interpretation that you merely happen to prefer when there is no reason whatever to be so autocratic about it.


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 Message 159 by NoNukes, posted 06-23-2014 8:13 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

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 Message 166 by herebedragons, posted 06-23-2014 10:37 AM Faith has responded
 Message 169 by Tangle, posted 06-23-2014 10:47 AM Faith has responded

    
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