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Author Topic:   Depositional Models of Sea Transgressions/Regressions - Walther's Law
Faith
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 Message 511 of 533 (730634) 06-29-2014 1:49 PM Reply to: Message 510 by Dr Adequate06-29-2014 1:45 PM

So half a million years and what I figured was 20 thousand feet in a million years so now it's down to 10 thousand feet since they were formed and they should still have eroded away to dust by that calculation.

abe: Sorry the second figure makes it a tenth of that time so 2000 feet should be gone. What does that leave?

abe: Let's see. According to Wikipedia theyre 300 to 350 feet in height, so any calculation based on Percy's rate would have them demolished long since.

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Faith
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 Message 514 of 533 (730637) 06-29-2014 1:55 PM Reply to: Message 513 by Dr Adequate06-29-2014 1:53 PM

We're eroding the CLIFFS, Dr A., not the channel.

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Faith
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 Message 517 of 533 (730641) 06-29-2014 2:00 PM Reply to: Message 512 by Dr Adequate06-29-2014 1:52 PM

 Wait. Let me stop you there. I have asked you already. Who is doing the supposing? Who, Faith, who says that any given hoodoo in Bryce Canyon is millions of years old? Do these people have names? Do they have real existence? Are they of flesh and blood, or are they ghosts and shadows that haunt the recesses of your brain?

40 to 60 million years is the age given for the rock from which the hoodoos were carved, by the Old Earthers who wrote the article for the National Park Service, whom I suppose to be real people, but maybe they are really robots programmed to spout OE stuff.

HERE.

Do you have some reason to suppose that the hoodoos didn't start eroding at that point?

abe: Seems to me if we accept the rate given by Percy in 481, about a cm or 2 inches per hundred years, which would come to 20,000 inches or 1666 feet of erosion in a million years, you'd have to figure the erosion started AWFULLY recently to have left such tall formations still standing.

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Faith
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 Message 518 of 533 (730642) 06-29-2014 2:16 PM Reply to: Message 516 by Tanypteryx06-29-2014 1:58 PM

 The erosion being discussed is not lowering the elevation. It is erosion that widens the channel, so material is being aroded from the face of the cliffs.

Sigh. OK. So it's 450 thousand down to 180 thousand years old, so that means that at the rate given by Percy if they are half a million years old they'd have added ten thousand feet to the English Channel, or at the lower age about 2000 feet since they were formed. Is that feasible?

Let's get back to the hoodoos and the monuments.

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Faith
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 Message 521 of 533 (730646) 06-29-2014 2:30 PM Reply to: Message 519 by Dr Adequate06-29-2014 2:22 PM

But there is no reason whatever to suppose the erosion started recently enough for that to be the case. The fact that they wouldn't be here if it started when of course it did start, right after the cliffs were formed from which they were carved, simply proves that the OE figures are wrong.

You are going to have to explain the implications of your quote.

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Faith
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 Message 524 of 533 (730651) 06-29-2014 2:47 PM Reply to: Message 523 by Dr Adequate06-29-2014 2:39 PM

 When were the cliffs formed?

When the Flood waters receded. That's what formed the cliffs of the Grand Staircase, which include the cliffs from which the hoodoos were shaped.

 Note that the cliffs are different from the rocks and the time since there was a cliff face is different from the time that any given presently existing hoodoo was carved.

Uh huh, but on Flood timing the time is quite short. The layers were laid down by the Flood waters. As the waters receded they broke up a lot of the upper strata leaving all kinds of interesting formations in the Southwest.

So you've explained away the hoodoos (maybe) and Dover. How are you going to explain away the rate of erosion of the monuments in Monument Valley? I can hardly wait.

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Faith
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 Message 526 of 533 (730658) 06-29-2014 3:20 PM Reply to: Message 525 by Dr Adequate06-29-2014 2:51 PM

In Message 480 Percy says the monuments have been exposed to erosion for tens of millions of years and that the sandstone erodes at a rate of around 15 cm per thousand years, and siltstone at a rate of about 5 cm per thousand years.

That's about 5000 feet in ten million years for the sandstone. Pretty much takes care of that, shouldn't be any left standing without even multiplying the "tens" of millions. And 1660 feet in ten million years for the siltstone. Kinda does it there too wouldn't you say? So which part do you disagree with, the tens of millions of years since they started eroding or the rate or what?

ABE: Of course the truth of the matter is that layers were deposited in the Flood to a depth of some three miles or more, then when the water receded it eroded away a lot of the upper strata all over the Southwest leaving all those interesting formations. After the water was gone the formations were subject to yearly erosion. That's how it really happened.

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Faith
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 Message 528 of 533 (730662) 06-29-2014 3:47 PM Reply to: Message 527 by ringo06-29-2014 3:46 PM

Percy said it began eroding tens of millions of years ago. I already said that.

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Faith
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 Message 533 of 533 (730682) 06-29-2014 6:37 PM

There is nothing to summarize. The thread was already off topic before I posted Message 448. If it was going to be interrupted for being off topic that should have been done pages ago because it picked up momentum and to stop it now is cruel. So many threads have been left to go severely off topic over the last many months why even bother at all?

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