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Author Topic:   Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1
OS
Member (Idle past 3289 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 406 of 1498 (730688)
06-29-2014 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 405 by Coyote
06-29-2014 7:34 PM


No, I wanted more in depth knowledge as to how the general K-Ar-Ca mix works. It has spurred me to read more.
On the magma level, it does look like 40K is being forced to turn into 40Ar and 40Ca by neutrons and protons.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Coyote, posted 06-29-2014 7:34 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Coyote, posted 06-29-2014 8:12 PM OS has not replied
 Message 410 by Coragyps, posted 06-29-2014 8:20 PM OS has replied
 Message 415 by Pressie, posted 06-30-2014 5:16 AM OS has replied
 Message 417 by JonF, posted 06-30-2014 8:08 AM OS has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 407 of 1498 (730689)
06-29-2014 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by OS
06-29-2014 7:45 PM


OK.
That part is outside of my field. I do radiocarbon dating, but have never dealt with the other radiometric dating methods.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

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 Message 406 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 7:45 PM OS has not replied

  
OS
Member (Idle past 3289 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 408 of 1498 (730690)
06-29-2014 8:14 PM


I think I should conclude here too.
Edited by OS, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2124 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(2)
Message 409 of 1498 (730691)
06-29-2014 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 408 by OS
06-29-2014 8:14 PM


Stick around. This is a good place to learn things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 8:14 PM OS has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 753 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 410 of 1498 (730693)
06-29-2014 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 406 by OS
06-29-2014 7:45 PM


No, neutrons and protons from the "outside" have nothing to do with it. Potassium-40
is radioactive. It decays, to Ca-40 and Ar-40, all by itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 7:45 PM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 8:48 PM Coragyps has replied

  
OS
Member (Idle past 3289 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 411 of 1498 (730697)
06-29-2014 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 410 by Coragyps
06-29-2014 8:20 PM


"For a collision between argon 40 and a proton, the result would be emission of either two protons to get Cl-39 or an alpha particle to get Cl-38."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Coragyps, posted 06-29-2014 8:20 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by Coragyps, posted 06-29-2014 9:13 PM OS has not replied
 Message 414 by Pressie, posted 06-30-2014 4:00 AM OS has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 753 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 412 of 1498 (730702)
06-29-2014 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by OS
06-29-2014 8:48 PM


Neither chlorine-38 nor chlorine-39 are either calcium-40 or argon-40. Sort of like a duck is not a frog, and a persimmon not a paramecium. That, and 40+1-4 does not equal 38, so one argon-40 plus one proton minus one alpha particle ( the four) won't get you to anything-38.

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 413 of 1498 (730704)
06-29-2014 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by OS
06-29-2014 7:25 PM


So the only thing I can say, and it goes against conventional understanding, is that 40K/40Ar decay requires a neutron and the expulsion of a proton.
Radioactive decay is a spontaneous reaction. Decay does not require anything except the parent nuclei and the passage of time.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 414 of 1498 (730718)
06-30-2014 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 411 by OS
06-29-2014 8:48 PM


OS writes:
"For a collision between argon 40 and a proton, the result would be emission of either two protons to get Cl-39 or an alpha particle to get Cl-38."
This would thus mean that, in the cases where the ages of crystals were determined with the K/Ar or Ar/Ar methods, those crystals are actually older than the ages determined by these methods. It would mean that those geologists underestimated the ages of those crystals.
I will explain why, quickly. For example, the K/Ar method starts working with the crystallisation of minerals.
Ar is an inert gas and can't be incorporated in the chemical reactions resulting in the crystal lattices of crystals. That's how we start, from basic chemistry. When the crystal forms, 0% Ar in the crystal lattices.
Then the K in those lattices start decaying according to basic physics.
The more the percentage of Ar in crystal lattices, the older the crystal. So, old OS is telling us that some Ar in the crystal lattices are removed via protons.
OS just confirmed that the earth is old. Very, very old.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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 Message 411 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 8:48 PM OS has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 415 of 1498 (730719)
06-30-2014 5:16 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by OS
06-29-2014 7:45 PM


OS writes:
On the magma level, it does look like 40K is being forced to turn into 40Ar and 40Ca by neutrons and protons.
Luckily for humanity, both the K/Ar and Ar/Ar methods only start working after the magmatic phases.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 7:45 PM OS has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by OS, posted 07-20-2014 5:51 PM Pressie has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 416 of 1498 (731797)
06-30-2014 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by Coyote
06-29-2014 8:16 PM


Coyote writes:
Stick around. This is a good place to learn things.
Ahmen, indeed.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Coyote, posted 06-29-2014 8:16 PM Coyote has not replied

Replies to this message:
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JonF
Member (Idle past 186 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 417 of 1498 (731798)
06-30-2014 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 406 by OS
06-29-2014 7:45 PM


On the magma level, it does look like 40K is being forced to turn into 40Ar and 40Ca by neutrons and protons.
Not even wrong.
Calcium is irrelevant to radiometric dating. As I posted before and you denied, 40K decays to 40 Ar by capturing an electron from an inner shell to turn a neutron into a proton and emitting a 1.460 MeV (minimum) gamma ray and a neutrino.
We know this stuff.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 406 by OS, posted 06-29-2014 7:45 PM OS has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1423 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 418 of 1498 (731801)
06-30-2014 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 416 by Pressie
06-30-2014 7:37 AM


learning
Coyote writes:
Stick around. This is a good place to learn things.
Ahmen, indeed.
Indeed ... IF one wants to learn ... and is willing to change their mind when presented with new (to them), more accurate information.
Enjoy.

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by our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 416 by Pressie, posted 06-30-2014 7:37 AM Pressie has not replied

  
OS
Member (Idle past 3289 days)
Posts: 67
Joined: 06-22-2014


Message 419 of 1498 (733729)
07-20-2014 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Pressie
06-30-2014 5:16 AM


Luckily for humanity, both the K/Ar and Ar/Ar methods only start working after the magmatic phases.
What's your proof?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Pressie, posted 06-30-2014 5:16 AM Pressie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 420 by Percy, posted 07-20-2014 6:10 PM OS has not replied
 Message 421 by Coragyps, posted 07-20-2014 6:19 PM OS has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22472
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 420 of 1498 (733731)
07-20-2014 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by OS
07-20-2014 5:51 PM


OS writes:
Luckily for humanity, both the K/Ar and Ar/Ar methods only start working after the magmatic phases.
What's your proof?
Pressie is merely calling your attention to a very well known fact, that some rocks contain minerals that take on the orientation of the existing magnetic field as they form. This can happen in volcanic rock, sedimentary rock, and metamorphic rock. The study of such rocks and their layers is called paleomagnetism. This field is how we know the position and orientations of ancient continents over past eons, as shown in videos like this:
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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