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Author | Topic: Who & what are the demons ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Are you proposing some sort of "sixth sense" type means of detection.....? I believe that it is possible, as I have "imagined/believed" such a scenario. No proof, however.......
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Straggler Member (Idle past 391 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Blimey!!
I'm still trying to garner from you what effect you believe demons can have on one's behaviour. As far as I understand it whenever I do something that rationally I know isn't a good idea I am being potentially influenced by demons. Now you seem to be suggesting that this influence is exerted by mans of some "sixth sense" type phenomenon...... Have you ever heard of the mind-body problem? If I were to ask you how some non-materially detectable form of influence could interract with our physical brains what would you say.....?
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Straggler writes: You got me there. There is no objectiveevidence for any presumed supernatural phenomena, be it God, GOD, OGG, or demons. I maintain, however, that subjective evidence remains valid, at least for my own conclusions.
If I were to ask you how some non-materially detectable form of influence could interract with our physical brains what would you say.....?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 391 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
What do you mean by 'subjective evidence'....?
Which subjective experiences qualify as evidence and which don't? If you have a dream about a demon does that qualify as evidence of the actual existence of demons? If you have a dream about Aphrodite (for example) does that qualify as evidence of the actual existence of Aphrodite?
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Which subjective experiences qualify as evidence and which don't? How would I know if I had a dream about a demon? The only subjective evidence that I would have is the way that my body/soul responded to the dream. If, for example, I broke out in a cold sweat, or was unable to move Paralyzed Wakefulness If you have a dream about a demon does that qualify as evidence of the actual existence of demons? If you have a dream about Aphrodite (for example) does that qualify as evidence of the actual existence of Aphrodite? Finally, should I approach the problem logically, reasonably, and rationally, or is that itself mean that I am in denial? Is spiritual experience untestable in the natural world?
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Rahvin Member Posts: 4084 Joined: Member Rating: 7.8
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How would I know if I had a dream about a demon? The only subjective evidence that I would have is the way that my body/soul responded to the dream. If, for example, I broke out in a cold sweat, or was unable to move Paralyzed Wakefulness Really? Nightmares and common sleep paralysis are "evidence" of something like demons, now? So far "subjective evidence" just sounds like "ignorant gullibility."The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus "...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds ofvariously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 391 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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When we sleep there is a state of muscle atonia which stops us physically acting out our dreams. This is, for obvious reasons, a useful thing.
Sleep paralysis combined with some form of sexual arousal is what lies behind the Incubus demon myth. Since having children (and thus 6 years and counting of disrupted sleep) I have experienced this in a minor sense myself a few times. The feeling that one is (sort of) conscious whilst also unable to move is a common and a known aspect of REM sleep gone a bit wrong. Throw in the (again entirely involuntary) male erection cycle (or the female clitoral equivalent) and you have some pretty tasty myths around demonic sexual encounters. Subjective evidence says demons... What we know about the nature of sleep says not..
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
Straggler writes: Indeed. As I may have said before, I dont go out of my way to believe in the occult. I DO defend my belief in God,though I allow myself to question it.(as opposed to doubting it) Either those who believe demons do exist are wrong or those who believe they don't exist are wrong. We may never know which. But we do know for a fact that some beliefs are just factually wrong. How can it be otherwise? This was interesting:
VATICAN GIVES THUMBS UP FOR EXORCIST ASSOCIATION The article states--in part:
quote: Apparently, one such recipient of blessing from the good Pontif himself still has issues.
Man in Pope Francis Exorcism Story Says He's Still Possessed by Demons When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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jar Member (Idle past 165 days) Posts: 34140 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LOL
The guy shows all the classic signs of bad burritos.Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Straggler Member (Idle past 391 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I'm not sure what we are supposed to take from this?
That demons are real because the Pope says so...?
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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"Pope Francis and the demons" sounds like a Disney movie.
"I just rattled off that post not caring whether any of it was true or not if you want to know." -- Faith
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2
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"Pope Francis and the demons" sounds like a Disney movie. The main character in the movie is this guy from Canada who simply wants God to leave him alone and who resents the idea that God gets to treat humanity however He decrees. He finds some of the demons on the street...homeless and unkempt....and gives them some of his spare change. A friendship is forged. The autocratic Catholic Bishop hears of this and frantically calls the Vatican. "To The Popemobile", they shout! The climactic finale has Pope Francis on a snowmobile, heading the demons off at the pass...whereby our Canadian friend steps in front of the Pontif and begs him to lay off the poor demons....who are, after all, simply displaced people in need of a home. Walt would of course turn over in his grave. When I use a word, Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, it means just what I choose it to meannothing more nor less.
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Phat Member Posts: 18716 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 4.2 |
zombie writes: Because of the otherworldly voices. The human freely decided to allow the inspiration of the demon in their lives and the otherworldly voices confirm the existence of the demon...not simply as a man making unduplicatable noises. If a demon can not influence a human to do anything that that human had not previously decided to do anyway - such as speaking in "otherworldly" voices - why do you need to postulate the existence of the demon at all?
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Capt Stormfield Member Posts: 429 From: Vancouver Island Joined: |
What makes you think that such noises can't be duplicated? The fact that believers don't duplicate them - and thus undermine their own beliefs and claims - when asked?
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ringo Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Ever see a movie? Chances are you got your idea of what "otherworldly voices" are from a movie like The Exocist or Poltergeist. ...not simply as a man making unduplicatable noises. If your ear can hear it - i.e if it is a sound wave - then it can be duplicated. What maybe can not be duplicated is a glitch in your brain that causes you to think you hear something that isn't really there, that isn't really a sound at all.
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