Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,824 Year: 4,081/9,624 Month: 952/974 Week: 279/286 Day: 0/40 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Continuation of Flood Discussion
edge
Member (Idle past 1733 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 796 of 1304 (732329)
07-06-2014 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 792 by Faith
07-06-2014 2:27 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
I already answered everything you are so ridiculously misrepresenting or posing again in that post.
I may have seen some answers, but nothing to back them up.
Take it or leave it.
There isn't much to take away. It appears that you really don't know much about what your flood left behind. I remember one YEC who told me that the flood was so devastating the it destroyed all evidence of its passing. That was, of course, very convenient for his argument.
You'll leave it of course and go on misrepresenting it. Tired of trying to argue in good faith. See ya later.
Arguing from the standpoint of not knowing much is always more frustrating than from knowing something about the subject material. So take your time.
I'm curious however, as to your evidence that the Appalachians are the same age as the Rockies. If you get a chance, perhaps you could let us know.
Edited by edge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 792 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 2:27 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 798 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:37 PM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 797 of 1304 (732333)
07-06-2014 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 794 by edge
07-06-2014 3:45 PM


Re: overlooked
So you have lake sediments in the Claron. After the Flood. What IS your problem?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 794 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 3:45 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 809 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 8:22 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 798 of 1304 (732334)
07-06-2014 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 796 by edge
07-06-2014 3:53 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
The evidence is that the timing fits the Flood timing and continental drift fits the Flood timing and continental drift is part of the tectonic activity that occurred after the Flood and raised the mountains and all that. There you go.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 796 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 3:53 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 802 by Coyote, posted 07-06-2014 5:20 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 808 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 8:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 799 of 1304 (732335)
07-06-2014 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 786 by edge
07-06-2014 1:56 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
Then it leached upward, how about that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 786 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 1:56 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 807 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 8:11 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 800 of 1304 (732336)
07-06-2014 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 790 by edge
07-06-2014 2:22 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
Okay, assuming you use the term 'fact' loosely in this question, I would set about attempting to find evidence for this flood and then pursue some kind of mechanism, timing, etc. You will notice that this has not been the strategy of YEC scientists. They go about doing the equivalent of proving that internal combustion doesn't work after they've removed the wiring from the engine.
There is blatant in-your-face evidence for the Flood in the Geologic Column and its bazillions of fossils. That is STUPENDOUS evidence for the Flood, which can only be klutzily explained away by OE fairytales about nonexistent time periods.
Fossils are NOT being made at any rate comparable, and today's sedimentary rate which you brag about knowing is NOT the rate of the Flood deposition. So we don't need to find evidence, we have tons of it. It's just been co-opted by anti-Flood people.
The creation scientists are also exploring questions about mechanism, but if there was no rain until the forty days and nights of rain and you don't know what the "fountains of the deep" are, you tell us how you would go about investigating these things. It's not that they aren't doing it you know.
Again, believing in it, knowing it happened. Denying it happened is not an option. We use the facts and evidence we have. You think it's not enough, too bad, it's what we have.
In that case, I would be searching for evidence of the flood for a verrrrry long time. This provides a whole new understanding of the term 'quixotic'.
No, you'd be doing what we're doing.
Abd of course you don't believe in God so your opinion is worthless.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 790 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 2:22 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 801 by ringo, posted 07-06-2014 5:02 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 803 by NoNukes, posted 07-06-2014 5:47 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 806 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 8:10 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 801 of 1304 (732337)
07-06-2014 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 800 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:50 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
Faith writes:
The creation scientists are also exploring questions about mechanism....
They're really not, though, are they? All they're doing is speculating what coulda/woulda/shoulda/mighta happened, to reverse-engineer a Flood from evidence that doesn't support a Flood.
And you're telling us that those speculations can not be tested, so there's really no "exploration" involved, is there? You're drawing a map of what could/would/should/might be there and at the same time you're telling us that there's no way to go there to confirm your map.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:50 PM Faith has not replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 802 of 1304 (732338)
07-06-2014 5:20 PM
Reply to: Message 798 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:37 PM


Imaginary evidence
The evidence is that the timing fits the Flood timing and continental drift fits the Flood timing
Evidence?
You have none. All you have is belief and you're just making up whatever feels good to fit within that belief.
Evidence is the last thing you either need or want.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
How can I possibly put a new idea into your heads, if I do not first remove your delusions?--Robert A. Heinlein
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" does not include the American culture. That is what it is against.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 798 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 803 of 1304 (732341)
07-06-2014 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 800 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:50 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
There is blatant in-your-face evidence for the Flood in the Geologic Column and its bazillions of fossils.
As has been pointed out any number of times. That evidence is completely consistent with an ancient earth and no flood. And when viewed in detail, the arrangement of fossils requires Creation proponents to put forth inane explanations that do not work. That problem alone is enough to rule out the flood as a cause of the geologic column.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:50 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 804 by ringo, posted 07-06-2014 6:05 PM NoNukes has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 439 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 804 of 1304 (732343)
07-06-2014 6:05 PM
Reply to: Message 803 by NoNukes
07-06-2014 5:47 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
NoNukes writes:
... the arrangement of fossils requires Creation proponents to put forth inane explanations that do not work.
I recall somebody suggesting that birds are higher in the geological column than dinosaurs because they might have been riding on dinosaurs.
Henny Youngman must be spinning in his grave.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 803 by NoNukes, posted 07-06-2014 5:47 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 805 by NoNukes, posted 07-06-2014 6:59 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 805 of 1304 (732344)
07-06-2014 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 804 by ringo
07-06-2014 6:05 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
I recall somebody suggesting that birds are higher in the geological column than dinosaurs because they might have been riding on dinosaurs.
It's as sensible as any other thing they've come up with;
Henny Youngman
There are a few clips of HY on youtube. I took the opportunity to watch a couple. Thanks

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 804 by ringo, posted 07-06-2014 6:05 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1733 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(2)
Message 806 of 1304 (732347)
07-06-2014 8:10 PM
Reply to: Message 800 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:50 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
There is blatant in-your-face evidence for the Flood in the Geologic Column and its bazillions of fossils. That is STUPENDOUS evidence for the Flood, which can only be klutzily explained away by OE fairytales about nonexistent time periods.
Poison the well much? I see that we have your opinion regarding evolution, but do you have any actual evidence for your own scenario. This is exactly what I suggested earlier when I said that YECs don't look for supporting evidence, they can only tilt at windmills. Your post itself is supporting evidence of that.
Fossils are NOT being made at any rate comparable, and today's sedimentary rate which you brag about knowing is NOT the rate of the Flood deposition. So we don't need to find evidence, we have tons of it. It's just been co-opted by anti-Flood people.
Sure, if you assume they were deposited in 4ky years. However, can you imagine what it would have been like if all of those bazillions of organisms were actually alive just before the fludde?
The creation scientists are also exploring questions about mechanism, but if there was no rain until the forty days and nights of rain and you don't know what the "fountains of the deep" are, you tell us how you would go about investigating these things. It's not that they aren't doing it you know.
Of course I don't know what 'fountains of the deep are'. No one has ever seen one or even described one, AKAIK. Just another example of YEC science not doing its job.
No, you'd be doing what we're doing.
Well, I admit that you don't have much choice. However, I seriously doubt I'd do anything the YEC way.
Abd of course you don't believe in God so your opinion is worthless.
Why should I?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 800 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 813 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 10:12 PM edge has replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1733 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 807 of 1304 (732348)
07-06-2014 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 799 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:39 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
Then it leached upward, how about that.
Good. Now you need a place to deposit the salt.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 799 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1733 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


(1)
Message 808 of 1304 (732349)
07-06-2014 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 798 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:37 PM


Re: Imagination rules in the sciences of the unwitnessed past
The evidence is that the timing fits the Flood timing and continental drift fits the Flood timing and continental drift is part of the tectonic activity that occurred after the Flood and raised the mountains and all that. There you go.
That's just a story. Until you have evidence to support it, you really have nothing but a sleeping aid.
For instance, we know that there was emergent land elsewhere during the period of deposition of the GC-GS stratigraphic sequences.
Oh wait! That's not part of your 'same data' package. You dismissed that weeks ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 798 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
edge
Member (Idle past 1733 days)
Posts: 4696
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 809 of 1304 (732350)
07-06-2014 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 797 by Faith
07-06-2014 4:35 PM


Re: overlooked
So you have lake sediments in the Claron. After the Flood. What IS your problem?
My problem is your inconsistency. You said that all of the sediments were deposited by the fludde and then the uplift and faulting occurred. But clearly. the Claron is post fludde because, as you stated, lakes and streams came after the fludde.
I'm just trying to understand your reasoning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 797 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 4:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 810 by Faith, posted 07-06-2014 8:34 PM edge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 810 of 1304 (732351)
07-06-2014 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 809 by edge
07-06-2014 8:22 PM


Re: overlooked
What wasn't clear to me is that you are apparently talking about the composition of the Claron layer itself as "lacustrine." At least I hope this clears it up. I just kept reading lakes and rivers on the surface which of course occurred after the Flood. So you want to know how lake type sediments got deposited BY the Flood? And my answer to that is Why not? The Flood would have deposited whatever was available to be deposited. OK? You aren't identifying what you mean by lake type sediments, is there any reason the Flood couldn't have deposited them?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 809 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 8:22 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 811 by Percy, posted 07-06-2014 9:10 PM Faith has replied
 Message 815 by edge, posted 07-06-2014 10:14 PM Faith has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024