Summations Only

Ah, so you don't trust those rascally scientists, do you? So, you have a better interpretation of the data? Do you really think that every article is going to provide all of the data? You need to go into the original literature for that; and a lot of it is there in the references section. Did you look at those?Try that little "[7]" for starters.By the way, when did you suddenly become interested in evidence? Does this mean you are going to provide some from here forward? Okay, so now you have that "[5]" notation. That would be the source of this data. Did you check it out?I'm curious about your hyperskepticism. Do you ever apply that to your own beliefs? Not exactly. These lakes had enclosing shorelines and, on occasion, dried up. They also had clams and molluscs of fresh-water type. But why would that be?Oh, that's right! It's what you want. I recommend more practice. Or both.I"m not sure what the rest of your sentence means.

If you're willing I'd really like to get a clearer picture of these evaporite beds. Where are these "dessication cracks" to be found, and the evaporative minerals? And you say "they" cause deformation but I'm not sure what the "they" refers to, and where they cause this deformation. Do the strata deform (sag) because of deformation beneath them or what? I'm sure your description is good but I'm not able to picture it yet.

OK, footnotes then, no description from you. The complaint about the interpretive presentation versus facts is a complaint I've made from the beginning here. It's typical of OE and Evo presentations as I've often said, and it serves only to mystify the reader.So I'm not going to get any actual facts from you either, just go check the footnotes. I'll let you know if I find any facts there or just more interpretive fairytale.ABE: Guess what, the footnotes don't go to anything online, just references in books.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

It is strange that you, of all people, should make such a complaint. Unlike you, I do not know every detail. I accept the interpretation of authors because it fits with what I do know.

So I guess for now I'll have to do without getting a better picture of the phenomena under discussion since the footnotes go nowhere and you don't have the information either.How about the evaporites then? Do you have some answers for my questions there, or some footnotes to send me to?Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I suppose it would be to you since you are fond of your idea of the clueless creationist.

Why is it that when you want deeper detail on our posts, you are willing to go beyond the scope of a discussion board, but when we ask for even a tiny bit of evidence you clam up like Fort Knox?Basically, salt can dissolve on contact with fresh water. This creates voids which then can collapse, disrupting the layers above.However, salt is also plastic and will flow under uneven loads. So, if there is more weight on one part of a salt bed, it will try to relieve the stress by flowing away from that excess load. Again, this causes upper layers to sag and deform, commonly to the surface.Here is a word from Wiki about the formation of evaporite deposits. (Evaporite - Wikipedia) Note that some kind of an enclosed basin is necessary. An example woudld be the Great Salt Lake or the Dead Sea, for instance.This is the order of precipitation of minerals from a marine source of water. For lakes it would be a little different, but halite and anhydrite would dominate. A similar zoning is found around salt domes also. These phases will plot around a lake from center to edge and top to bottom, so that the last material to precipitate would be from the most concentrated brines. This is seen in the Green River and Piceance Basins in Colorado, Wyoming and Utah.

And before you say that this is only conjecture or imagination, Faith, go see the people at Morton Salt in Grand Saline, Texas or at the WIPP project over near Carlsbad, New Mexico. They mine salt. They watch it deform. WIPP was built in salt beds to take advantage of this creep to be sure our radioactive waste gets encapsulated.And yes, there is gypsum in beds beneath the salt. All evaporates.

1. I keep thinking I've answered this but I guess not sufficiently from your point of view, but that leaves it as a puzzle for me.2. I think I've provided evidence, as much as I have, so when you keep on demanding evidence I just take it as a form of dismissing anything I say, so what can I do but press on anyway. I don't know if it's just that you don't regard the evidence I've given as evidence or what.3. Maybe you think it should be possible to produce this evidence you think I haven't produced so I'm just stupidly not doing something that should be easy to do, something you think YECs should and could be doing that we're just strangely not doing. HBD seems to think something of the sort, says he even gave me advice about how to go about it. Maybe I saw his advice and didn't see anything usable in it or maybe I didn't see it, I don't know, but this whole complaint from you guys is incomprehensible so I just keep on pressing on as best I can. I just figure you know you are asking for the impossible -- basically just another form of ridicule or taunt -- and it gives you an excuse to continue the insults. Thank you, I was pretty sure it had to be caused by the salt itself. OK. Thanks for all that. How it causes the strata to sag is the part that was puzzling me and I'm glad to have the answer to that. The order of precipitation is also interesting but of course my task as a YEC is to figure out how the water from which it all precipitates got there after all the strata above were already in place. Clearly they were already in place when the salt dissolved and left the void that caused the deformation, so presumably the strata were deposited when the salt was dry. Or hadn't yet precipitated out of the water, or the water itself, as a body of water contained in a basin, wasn't there yet. Next questions would have to do with the particular sediments above and below the salt, whether there is anything predictable about that or not. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I don't have any reason to doubt any of that; it's the interpretations that are the problem, the time period scenarios, not the actual physical facts. I always appreciate it when real facts are presented, such as petrophysics gave in his account of how he goes about his work, I think in this thread earlier. (No it was in the thread about historical versus observational science: HERE.)Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

One example I've shown you before: The neat thing is that there is about a thousand feet of rock above those evaporative minerals.Love to see the model, method or process that one of the Biblical Floods might create what is seen in real life.

And while you are figuring, figure out a place for many thousands of tons of water vapor per acre to go while it is covered in damp but nearly solid or at least kinda firm sediment.Or if you can figure a way for fresh water to escape in the liquid form from the salt it once had dissolved in it by, say, filtration through limestone or osmosis through gopher-wood membrane - that would be nearly as good.So your task is to 1) float some strata on mildly salty water and 2) remove the water alone, leaving the salts behind in layers.

If I were an admin I'd suspend you for a while for confusing things with a stupid mockery of a post.

And the blocks of wood in my workshop are not shaped like trees. Yet by looking at them, I can tell you what kind of tree they are from, what that tree was shaped like, which parts of the wood grew in "good" years and which in "bad", and on and on. Yet the blocks of wood are not shaped like trees. How can this be?Could it be because I have taken the time to actually learn something about trees and the boards they are sometimes turned into? Could it be that those who study geology have similarly learned how to recognise the characteristics of dunes in the blocks of sandstone they sometimes become?PS: If you have some big trees that you want to move from one place to another after you've killed them, the Hayes HDw in my avatar photo is one hell of a tool for accomplishing that task.

How do evaporites form without evaporation, Faith? Or how does evaporation proceed under layers of rock? What am I confusing there, Faith?