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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2821 of 5179 (733619)
07-19-2014 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2803 by Dr Adequate
07-18-2014 3:45 AM


Re: So, you like people having weapons of mass destruction?
If enough criminals get killed by law abiding citizens protecting themselves, they will start to question their illegal and wicked ways.
You'd be astonished how little time dead people spend on introspection.
It seems that all 12000 of your posts contributed about this much to the conversations So, when you cannot add to the debate intelligently, you make these type of comments. When criminals are threatened, they will not commit the crimes. I am starting to question if you are one.....

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2803 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-18-2014 3:45 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2822 of 5179 (733621)
07-19-2014 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2807 by Theodoric
07-18-2014 8:58 AM


Re: It doesn't add up
Well according to the opinions presented here, in most part, I should live in the state with the highest homicide rate.
Why do the gun nuts always use strawman arguments?
The highest homicide rate in Canada is in Nunavut, 15/100,000. Is it the guns? No I think it's because the place is filled with Nunavut Indians and they think different than White Europeans.
Oh yeah of course the obligatory racism.
Looks like you cannot debate his points logically, so you revert to the standard "gun nut" and "racism" terms Love it! Now, let's try to use logical arguments.
Quick question: If i brought up the fact that black on black crime is higher than other demographics, would that be racist? What if I were referring to a valid study? Still racist? What if I were black? And, what exactly is a "gun nut"?
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2807 by Theodoric, posted 07-18-2014 8:58 AM Theodoric has not replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2823 of 5179 (733622)
07-19-2014 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 2806 by Straggler
07-18-2014 7:45 AM


Re: It doesn't add up
Straggler,
I would argue the validity of that study, based on my experience with those that own numerous guns. Also, they need to include the demographics of those committing the crimes, as well as numerous other variables. Number of inanimate objects (guns) would not make any sense in controlling the human mind
I'm sure Harvard is not biased. Should I bring NRA studies to the table also? I am guessing you would make the same argument.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2806 by Straggler, posted 07-18-2014 7:45 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2838 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2014 1:33 PM mram10 has replied
 Message 2845 by Straggler, posted 07-21-2014 11:54 AM mram10 has not replied
 Message 2846 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-21-2014 7:09 PM mram10 has not replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2824 of 5179 (733623)
07-19-2014 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 2808 by Percy
07-18-2014 9:29 AM


I will keep my guns to protect my family...
The most likely use of a gun kept in a family setting is against a family member or friend. Owning a gun puts a family at greater, not lesser, risk.
How would you reduce gun deaths in this country?
--Percy
Where is your evidence?? As a scientist, I don't just throw out blanket irrational statements as fact
I am sure it is easier to jump on the left wing bandwagon to feel like one of the "cool kids", but you risk looking foolish when you make unfounded and false comments just to push your agenda.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2808 by Percy, posted 07-18-2014 9:29 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2828 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 1:08 PM mram10 has replied
 Message 2831 by Percy, posted 07-19-2014 7:12 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2825 of 5179 (733624)
07-19-2014 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 2811 by ringo
07-18-2014 11:54 AM


Re: So, you like people having weapons of mass destruction?
IT IS NOT THE GUNS. IT IS THE PEOPLE.
It's the people who have guns. Some of them shouldn't.
That is a great idea. Maybe we should make laws stating felons shouldn't have them. Wait a minute ....
Let me guess, you are against the death penalty. Is that true?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2811 by ringo, posted 07-18-2014 11:54 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2826 by ringo, posted 07-19-2014 12:49 PM mram10 has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2826 of 5179 (733628)
07-19-2014 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 2825 by mram10
07-19-2014 12:39 PM


Re: So, you like people having weapons of mass destruction?
mram10 writes:
Maybe we should make laws stating felons shouldn't have them.
Felons aren't the only problem. The guy who has never committed a felony until he shoots his wife in a jealous rage is also a problem.
The real root problem is that Americans tend to think they can "protect themselves" with guns.
mram10 writes:
Let me guess, you are against the death penalty. Is that true?
I'd be happy to discuss the death penalty in a topic about the death penalty. Feel free to start one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2825 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 12:39 PM mram10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2827 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 12:57 PM ringo has replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2827 of 5179 (733631)
07-19-2014 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2826 by ringo
07-19-2014 12:49 PM


Re: So, you like people having weapons of mass destruction?
mram10 writes:
Maybe we should make laws stating felons shouldn't have them.
Felons aren't the only problem. The guy who has never committed a felony until he shoots his wife in a jealous rage is also a problem.
The real root problem is that Americans tend to think they can "protect themselves" with guns.
How many "jealous rage" murders have we had?? I didn't know it was legal. Maybe we should start by taking the guns of those that choose to use alcohol, drugs (illegal and legal), etc.
As for your "root" problem, I would argue it is the moral condition of people. The steel, rubber, plastic and wood do not soak through your skin and cause you to go on a rampage.
Weird that "Americans" think that a gun can increase your self defense ability This is a ridiculous statement. Speaking of drugs ..... nevermind
mram10 writes:
Let me guess, you are against the death penalty. Is that true?
I'd be happy to discuss the death penalty in a topic about the death penalty. Feel free to start one.
Oh, let's do I will get right on that.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2826 by ringo, posted 07-19-2014 12:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2829 by ringo, posted 07-19-2014 1:08 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 2828 of 5179 (733632)
07-19-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2824 by mram10
07-19-2014 12:35 PM


mram10 writes:
I am sure it is easier to jump on the left wing bandwagon to feel like one of the "cool kids", but you risk looking foolish when you make unfounded and false comments just to push your agenda.
Here is a link illustrating that Percy posted evidence of exactly what he says about 2100 posts ago. See Message 735.
Maybe you have a response to this evidence, and maybe you discount it for good reason. Your reasoning would be interesting to read, and hopefully you'll get around to sharing that with us. But your assertion that Percy looks foolish just made you look like an idiot.
You are gaining a reputation here as being a blowhard with nothing much to say. Your disdain for the posters who disagree with you is also quite clear. It is also misplaced. Everyone here is just as smart as you.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2824 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 12:35 PM mram10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2832 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 7:57 PM NoNukes has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 2829 of 5179 (733633)
07-19-2014 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 2827 by mram10
07-19-2014 12:57 PM


Re: So, you like people having weapons of mass destruction?
mram10 writes:
How many "jealous rage" murders have we had?? I didn't know it was legal.
The point is that preventing felons from having guns doen't prevent non-felons from shooting their wives. To prevent gun deaths, you have to keep guns out of the hands of (potential) murderers, not just (people who are already) felons.
mram10 writes:
Maybe we should start by taking the guns of those that choose to use alcohol, drugs (illegal and legal), etc
We do that with cars, don't we?
mram10 writes:
Weird that "Americans" think that a gun can increase your self defense ability
Indeed it is. It can be used to shoot first (a sneak attack like Pearl Harbor or 9/11) but it doesn't make you bullet-proof.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2827 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 12:57 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied

Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(1)
Message 2830 of 5179 (733651)
07-19-2014 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 2805 by petrophysics1
07-18-2014 5:09 AM


Wyoming, the land of few people to kill
Well according to the opinions presented here, in most part, I should live in the state with the highest homicide rate.
I live in Wyoming which has the highest rate of firearm ownership of any state. 59.7% of the people in Wyoming own firearms.( think about that since people under 18 can not buy a gun and that's 23% of the population)
The homicide rate is 1.4/100,000 and from guns .9/100,000.
Wyoming has a very small and diffuse population. Of course the gun control needs are different from other parts of the country. Out of curiosity, how about you looking up the homicide rates in Casper and/or the other great population concentrations in Wyoming?
{ABE - Per here, Casper's murder rate for the years 2000 to 2012 ranged from 0 to 8/100,000. The "8" was 4 murders in 2003. Apparently Casper has a population of about 50,000. No figures were listed for firearm homicides.}
Just because Wyoming doesn't have a problem, that doesn't mean that we don't need to address the problem happening elsewhere in the country. Not to mention all the firearms that are going to Mexico. Mexico's gun problem is probably largely based on U.S. supply.
Moose
Edited by Minnemooseus, : ABE

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2805 by petrophysics1, posted 07-18-2014 5:09 AM petrophysics1 has not replied

Percy
Member
Posts: 22389
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 2831 of 5179 (733657)
07-19-2014 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 2824 by mram10
07-19-2014 12:35 PM


mram10 writes:
Where is your evidence??
This thread's over a year old and almost 3000 messages, so it isn't reasonable to ask a newcomer to read the entire thread. That being said, the evidence has been presented here before. For example, here's the abstract from a 2004 paper titled Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study:
Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.
You go on to say:
As a scientist, I don't just throw out blanket irrational statements as fact
I don't know that you're convincing anyone here that you're much of a scientist, but in any event, you're not the topic here, so I don't know why you're telling us all how much you think of yourself.
I am sure it is easier to jump on the left wing bandwagon to feel like one of the "cool kids", but you risk looking foolish when you make unfounded and false comments just to push your agenda.
I'm not the topic either.
How would you reduce gun deaths in this country?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2824 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 12:35 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2832 of 5179 (733659)
07-19-2014 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 2828 by NoNukes
07-19-2014 1:08 PM


NoNukes writes:
You are gaining a reputation here as being a blowhard with nothing much to say. Your disdain for the posters who disagree with you is also quite clear. It is also misplaced. Everyone here is just as smart as you.
The opinions of those that disregard everything said that doesn't agree with their view, and loves to make snide comments about "creationists" is "misplaced".
Take a look at my past questions and the response it got from biased people on here, that simply made rude comments with no scientific answers. If you agree they are in the right acting like this, then your opinion doesn't matter to me

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2828 by NoNukes, posted 07-19-2014 1:08 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2833 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-19-2014 8:33 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied
 Message 2834 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2014 12:44 AM mram10 has replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 2833 of 5179 (733664)
07-19-2014 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 2832 by mram10
07-19-2014 7:57 PM


Perhaps you could set us all a good example by writing more posts containing actual data and links to scientific studies, and fewer posts insulting and whining about the people who have the temerity to disagree with you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2832 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 7:57 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 2834 of 5179 (733670)
07-20-2014 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 2832 by mram10
07-19-2014 7:57 PM


If you agree they are in the right acting like this, then your opinion doesn't matter to me
What did Percy do to you? If you think Dr. Adequate or I have been too hard on you, why take that out on Percy?
In the end, my opinion is not really that important, so feel free to ignore it. But you get to decide what you want your own reputation to be here by what you post. Perhaps if you hadn't introduced yourself to the group by casting aspersions on the "non scientists" before you had ever engaged them in discussion, you might be getting a more reasonable reception right now. But by now many of us understand that you think we're all idiots.
Carry on bro.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him. Galileo Galilei
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2832 by mram10, posted 07-19-2014 7:57 PM mram10 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2835 by mram10, posted 07-20-2014 12:09 PM NoNukes has replied

mram10
Member (Idle past 3502 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-07-2012


Message 2835 of 5179 (733688)
07-20-2014 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2834 by NoNukes
07-20-2014 12:44 AM


NoNukes,
The most likely use of a gun kept in a family setting is against a family member or friend. Owning a gun puts a family at greater, not lesser, risk.
How would you reduce gun deaths in this country?
--Percy
You consider that hard? "Most likely", based on what? How would I reduce gun deaths? Let's start by changing people's hearts, mind set, etc. Logically, you cannot blame a gun for what a person decides to do with it.
Also, stop being dishonest. I never called anyone a "non-scientist" before engaging them. That came after rude and off topic comments by those.
Either way, let's get back on topic. Gun control (or any other control) will not work while people with wicked intentions wish to act on them. It is like the knife laws out there. Will allowing people to carry 4" or less knives stop crime by wicked people? No.
Also, It is funny when some posters choose to give the benefit of the doubt to the criminal. You cannot mind read and do not know the intentions of someone breaking into your house. If you choose to give them the benefit of the doubt, enjoy yourself
As for thinking you are idiots, I think those attacking me are biased and afraid of anyone bringing questions to the table that do not agree with their ideas. I have learned a lot on this site, so intelligence is here. I am just no the type to sit by and have someone attack me after a simple question, without acknowledging their attack.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.
Edited by mram10, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2834 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2014 12:44 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 2836 by NoNukes, posted 07-20-2014 12:47 PM mram10 has replied
 Message 2837 by Coragyps, posted 07-20-2014 1:05 PM mram10 has seen this message but not replied

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